Bleaching and deodorizing Tallow

luiscuevasiiluiscuevasii Member
in Formulating
Greetings, in previous post i made an attempt to make my own soap noodles mainly with palmoil, and it was very sucefull, now i will use tallow, i want to know if someone have any experience deodorizing and bleaching tallow, i began the following experiments today hoping that at least one could work: 

1) Bleaching with natural bentonite, mixing 2% of bentonite with tallow at 70 Celcius for 30 minutes, then filter it.

2) Mixing solid tallow in 5% solution of naoh for 24 hours, then washing it with Nacl at 60celcius, then filter it

3) Dezodorizing putting tallow in a oven for about 4 hours at 150-200 celcius

4) Mixing tallow with charcoal at 70 celcius for 30 minutes and filtering


Experiment for tomorrow: 

5) ussing 1% Phosphoric acid solution and 1% sodium hypoclhorite and mixing for about 1 hour with tallow 

6) Bleaching with activated bentonite made ussing natural clay used in the #1 experimetn with 1N solution of Citric acid with little agitation for 1 hour and let it rest for 24 hour, (i will use phosphoric acid insted tomorrow )



I dont have the possibility to make vacum pressures to remove odor, im ussing steam injection to control the temperature, i will post the results of the experiments tomorrow, any help will be useful.




 

Comments

  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    do you have the capability to hydrogenate it?
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • luiscuevasiiluiscuevasii Member
    @Bill_Toge ; thanks for your reply, right now im aiming to do something less complex, i could make hydrogenation, i have a small 5cfm vacum pump, and a smalll 500 liters tank with mixer that could be arrengled to make vacum, inject hydrogen and avoid oxigen, i have seen that i only need about 70 celcius to make the hydrogenation, but i dint know where i can find nickle, does an 50%/50% cooper/nickle dust could work?.

    have you hydrigenated tallow?, does it remove color or odor enough?
  • luiscuevasiiluiscuevasii Member
    today results:

    1) natural bentonite clay bleaching didnt worked, the color of threated tallow vs untreated tallow is almost the same, according to litterature natural clay could remoove from 8% to 15% of tallow color.

    2) naoh at 5% didnt worked

    3) the smell changed a lot for better, the color got from dark yellow to light red, i will try to bleach it tomorrow

    4) charcoal didnt bleached or decolorized, in fact the tallow became brown,

    5) the phosphoric acid didnt arrived today, i must wait to the monday and try.

    6)bleaching with citric acid actives bentonite didnt worked as expected, i will make a 3N HCL activate bentonite and post results
  • DASDAS Member
    http://lipidlibrary.aocs.org/OilsFats/content.cfm?ItemNumber=40321

    Theres a lot of info on the site, you can do more reading.

    Btw, sodium hypochlorite+acid doesn't seem wise.
  • beautynerdbeautynerd Member
    More folkloric references suggest salt and potassium alum works.

    A method is outlined in the bottom of this thread: https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/home-made-lamb-tallow-soap.302838/
  • luiscuevasiiluiscuevasii Member
    @das thanks you very much for the link, you are right i could make chlorine gas using acid and acid, i will sustitue it with h202 and acid.
  • luiscuevasiiluiscuevasii Member
    @EliseCortes thanks you very much for the tip.
    In soapmaking forum there is a lot of references ussing alum; but i have seen the youtube videos posted in the forums and the results looks disapointing, most of they are making small batchs arround 5lb ussing stick blenders and crock pots, im looking for a feasible procces to make arround 500 pounds per batch.

    i dont have alum right now, and its very difficult to find raw materials at this time of the year, i made a lot of testing ussign potassium alum as deodorant with very satisfyng results.
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Perhaps you could find a better source of tallow? A while ago I was boiling some minced beef for my dogs and rather than pour the fat away, I kept it to see how it turned out. It solidified into a white cake. I added this to some hot water, remelted it, and decanted it a couple of times. The resulting tallow was white, without contamination, so I made some soap using it as one of the ingredients. The soap turned out great.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • luiscuevasiiluiscuevasii Member
    thanks you all for your comentsñ must say that almost all the experiments failed or were very unsatisfactory,

    desodorizing was only achived ussing an oil kettle at 250 celcius for about 2 hours

    bleaching was only achived ussing sodium hypochlorite with acid and tallowñ with a formation of 2 layers compound wich i think that could be soap (due to free naoh) and a bleached tallow

    activation of bentonite was done with 15% hclñ then washedñ dried and pulverized, but the results ussing it for bleaching was unsatifastory



  • luiscuevasiiluiscuevasii Member
    @Belassi thanks for your reply, i bought a mix of 1100pounds of tallow from a 
    slaughterhouse, wich i asume wasnt fresh and rancity could impart a dark yellow color to tallow, there arent much suppliers arround here that can handle big quantities, so bassically as always im stuck
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Convert it to biodiesel

    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • luiscuevasiiluiscuevasii Member
    @Belassi thanks belassi, but biodiesel doesnt have any value here, the gasoline, kerosene, diesel and all the petroleum destilates are almost free (a galon of gasoline is arround 0,012$)
  • DoreenDoreen Member
    edited December 2017
    @luiscuevasii
    bleaching was only achived ussing sodium hypochlorite with acid 
    I hope you have a fume hood!
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    I think your easiest move would be to go with the traditional full-boil hot process industrial-level soap making. As near as I can tell, most or all of the tallow impurities are removed during this process.

    http://www.nzdl.org/gsdlmod?e=d-00000-00---off-0cdl--00-0----0-10-0---0---0direct-10---4-------0-1l--11-en-50---20-about---00-0-1-00-0--4----0-0-11-10-0utfZz-8-00&a=d&c=cdl&cl=CL1.203&d=HASH015bbb10c6f5cb2249d93782.9#HASH015bbb10c6f5cb2249d93782.9

    https://www.slideshare.net/kp_abhinav/soap-manufacturing-process

    http://www.madehow.com/Volume-2/Soap.html

    https://books.google.com/books?id=bfMHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=soap+making+nigre&source=bl&ots=_MYCyvYJse&sig=a1OMuC3S3eBmA-Rtk43kGfccssY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIvYG986rYAhUM5YMKHdL6A-YQ6AEIUDAI#v=onepage&q=soap making nigre&f=false



    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • luiscuevasiiluiscuevasii Member
    @Doreen81 i was ussing a forced air extractor fan.
  • luiscuevasiiluiscuevasii Member
    @Bobzchemist
    thanks you for your reply, im already ussing the fullboil hot procces with no issues ussing palm/cocnut oil, when ussing tallow the color of the soap is grey/brown and it has a little tallow odor, 
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    How about breaking the finished soap apart with acid and then re-forming it with NaOh?
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • carlahwzcarlahwz Member
    luiscuevasii said:
    thanks you all for your comentsñ must say that almost all the experiments failed or were very unsatisfactory,

    desodorizing was only achived ussing an oil kettle at 250 celcius for about 2 hours

    bleaching was only achived ussing sodium hypochlorite with acid and tallowñ with a formation of 2 layers compound wich i think that could be soap (due to free naoh) and a bleached tallow

    activation of bentonite was done with 15% hclñ then washedñ dried and pulverized, but the results ussing it for bleaching was unsatifastory



    Hi Luiscuevasii. I am desperate trying to figure out how to deodorise tallow. I’ve experimented every experiment you have! Nothing seems to work. My last how is using the oil kettle. I have bought myself an oil kettle as you said it worked for you. Did you heat this on a stove? I would love to get some information regarding deodorising tallow using an oil kettle if you have any additional information😀 Thanks! 
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