Long term lotion stability

I need to make a lotion that should have a decent stability life.  

In theory, should I use a carbomer or a cellulose gum or a combination of the 2?  

I understand you really won't know the stability till its done.

Comments

  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    edited September 2017
    Carbomer creams stability ... I have pots here >5 yrs which have eventually lost too much moisture to use, but they still have the same colour, aroma, and sensorials. In ambient temps 15-35C
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    It's a complicated question you asked. Production values are a major issue here. For instance, if you use gum you have to pre-disperse it and the moment it hydrates you have an immediate and permanent increase in viscosity. It is largely independent of temperature and so, relying on gum as a stabiliser may not only result in poor sensorials, but also pouring issues into the package.
    Whereas, carbomer creams are temperature sensitive and easy to pour above a critical temperature. You use a well insulated or temp-controlled pouring vessel. 
    Or, of course, you can use an emulsion system, backed up perhaps by a little gum. 
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    I'd agree.  Carbomer is the way to go.
  • What exactly is an emulsion system?
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Any blend of non compatible materials like oil and water that is stablized through the use of surfactants (also called emulsifiers) is an emulsion system.

    Most lotions would be considered emulsions.  The emulsion system is the emulsifiers & suspending agents that keep it stable.
  • so in a lotion you can have just an emulsion system (emulsifiers/oil/waxes) and not a carbomer?  Perhaps just a cellulose gum?  Stability (approx. a year or 2) would not be for long without a carbomer .... correct.
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    You don't need a stabiliser if the emulsion is designed well. My early creams were carbomer creams because I copied a commercial design successfully. Later on, I stopped using carbomer once I understood emulsions.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Carbopol emulsions are stable 5plus years?We have cream which is seven years old and still stable.No water loss in package.Better than surfactants as modifies Rheology and replaces need for HLB system.Love it.
  • Hi Belassi

    Could you tell us why you stopped using carbomers please?
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Well that is a complicated question to answer.
    I suppose that after I learned the HLB and another system, I wanted to use the knowledge to design stable emulsions without carbomer or gum. It is easier to work with them from a packaging point of view. No neutralisation and no problem with electrolytes of which there is a ton in my emulsions. Also, I use glycyrrhizic acid to make emulsions.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Carbomers and related compounds are an advancement in cosmetic science as they allow formulaters to do things otherwise not possible 
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Besides, I didn't "stop using" carbomers. I use carbomer in three different gel products.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • hi I hope u are well. this is my question
     
    if u use cobopol/cobomer. the ph is alkaline.. so adding ascobic acid as vit c in the product is not good .. is this correct.
  • Carbomer should be acid prior to neutralizing with a base IE-- TEA,NaOH
  • @DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ
    Won't the pH after neutralization be too high for L-ascorbic acid to be effective? Most carbomers need pH >6, right? Or is LAA not pH dependant?
  • Yes Ph would be too high for LAA addition and If added will lowerPh and destabilize carbomer 
  • LAA to be effective has to be at 2to3 so yes you are right.we use xanthan gum with LAA
  • So from above comments if I wanted to use hurdle technology to get a good preservation system and have a pH of around 4, a carbomer is not the way to go to have a shelf stable lotion/cream?
  • You can do it at 5 with most carbomers but below 5 likely unstable in storage at 50C--I would use either XG or polyamide such as Simugel INS (Seppic) or both.
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