pH adjusters for shampoo

Greetings, 
I have a question regarding pH adjusters for shampoo and more exactly substances that can increase the pH.
Can you list a few that you think are most effective?

Thank you in advance

Comments

  • ZivBAZivBA Member

    To increase the pH:

    TEA, NaOH, Cocamide DEA, Cocamide MEA.


    Chief Chemist/ R&D Manager at SASA Cosmetics
  • em88em88 Member
    Thank you very much for your reply! 
    I've used TEA, and added about 2% to increase the pH from 4 to 5 and wired thing was that it decreased the viscosity of the shampoo a lot.
    I was thinking about NaOH as well, but at what molarity should the solution be? 

  • 10%
  • em88em88 Member
    Thanks. Will try it! 
  • em88em88 Member
    Ok, I tried using NaOH 10% and I added to one test probe ~ 6 % (pH 3.9 -> 5.14)
    and to an other test probe ~2 % (pH 5.05 ->5.8). The second probe had already TEA which increased pH from 4 to 5.
    NaOH decreased the viscosity of the shampoo as well (it seemed that it decreased it a little less than TEA)
    Will have to make a few more tests to get a better comparison for TEA and NaOH and determine which one is more suitable since the two tests I did were not similar in the start. 
    Anyone else had similar experience with shampoos?
  • johnbjohnb Member, Professional Chemist
    It might be wise to investigate why the pH of your shampoo is so low.
  • em88em88 Member
    That is because of the API which is salicylic acid
  • johnbjohnb Member, Professional Chemist
    Neutralised salicylic acid has little or no dermatological activity.
  • em88em88 Member
    So what should I do? Leave the pH 4? 
  • johnbjohnb Member, Professional Chemist
    I recall having similar discussions re salicylic acid with you previously.

    If you want an anti-dandruff/antiseborrhoeic activity then, yes the free acid is necessary.

    There are a number of less aggressive and more up-to-date materials you could use which have A/D//A/S activity.

    Depending on where you are located, you may need to register your product as a drug or medicine.

  • em88em88 Member
    edited June 2017
    Indeed we had a discussion regarding SA
    In this case the SA is at 3% which can be considered as cosmetic if specified as rinse of. The original shampoo product i'm trying to make the generic, has the pH 5.15
    The shampoo is going to be for psoriasis (and seborrhoeic, dermatitis)
    I am currently reading some patents about pH interval for shampoos and it seems that pH 4 is ok for the scalp. 
  • The reason the viscosity changes is simple, you are adding ionic compounds to the shampoo.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • johnbjohnb Member, Professional Chemist
    You state that you regard your product as a cosmetic yet you also state it is for psoriasis and seborrhoeic dermatitis- presumably this means the treatment of these conditions. This fact makes makes your product a medicine irrespective of the concentration of any API.
  • em88em88 Member
    That is not a problem at all. As stated in our previews conversation, I have only mention where the project is targeted not how it will be described for.
    There are lots of plant teas that are targeted for specific diseases, it doesn't mean they are medicine drugs. Anyway, it would be better to focus more in the technical/chemical issues.
  • em88em88 Member
    Belassi Thank you.
  • Note that ANY time you adjust pH for a shampoo that relies on salt-curve thickening, you will get a viscosity change. When you adjust pH you're adding either negative or positive ionic compounds - for example citric acid will react to form citrates, which are salts, and alter the salt curve. 
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • em88em88 Member
    Thank you for your time Belassi.
    I red about salts and salt curve that increases the viscosity of shampoos. 
    I'm waiting for an other substance that I should add in the shampoo which has a pH 5-6 in 10% water solution and I'm guessing the viscosity should change. 
    It will be a "watching and learning" experience. 
  • Aloe vera gel that is 5-7 ph and is water based with thickening agent not medicinal but fyi very gentle for "sensitive" skin misfortune.
    nohypecosmetics.com.

  • em88em88 Member
    Quick question:
    Are there limits in adding NaCl for viscosity adjuster? 
    From what I red NaCl at 3.5% will dry the skin and hair. 
    I did the salt curve and if I go over 2% (say 2.5%) the viscosity still increases. 
  • adding too much salt is like washing your hair with salt water and dries hair and skin::I would not exceed 1.5% NaCl
  • Without knowing your ingredients list it is not possible to help further.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • em88em88 Member
    edited June 2017
    @DRBOB@VERDIENT.BIZ, I'm adding 1.5% NaCl and I'm getting the viscosity in the range of 2900-4000 cP.
    @Belassi, I'll add the ingredients shortly.

    One more question, I was looking the the shampoo that I am trying to make a similar one, and I noticed they have add Sodium Citrate (it seems a lot actually since it is in the top of the ingredient's list). What is the purpose of it? Adjusting pH or viscosity?
    Original shampoo ingredients

    Original shampoo ingredients:
    Purified water, ammonium lauryl sulfate, sodium laureth sulfate, sodium citrate, cocamidopropyl betaine, lauryl glucoside, PEG-150 pentaerythrityl tetrastearate, coco-glucoside, glyceryl oleate, aleurites moluccana seed oil, zinc PCA, panthenol, rheum palmatum extract, carthamus tinctorius (safflower) flower extract, camellia sinensis leaf extract, edetate disodium

    Thank you
  • Why are you mixing ALS and SLES? ALES is readily available and works far better than SLES which is a crummy surfactant in my opinion. Did you get this from a commercial product (it sounds as if you did because two of the ingredients together = Lamesoft PO65)
    Sodium citrate is probably listed but not added as such, more likely to be the final product of adding citric acid.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • em88em88 Member
    Hello,
    That is from inspiration product.
    The ingredients I am using are: 

    Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Butylated Hydroxyanisole, TEA, NaCl

    Thank you
  • Based on formula you show should be ok as sulffosuccinate will provide creamy lather.You just need a preservative (1percent phenoxyethanol).Also watch viscosity in storage as the sulfocuccinate can be thixotropic (viscosity increase with time)
  • em88em88 Member
    Greetings,
    Thank you for your input, very much appreciated. I do have paraben as preservatives.
    The current pH of the shampoo is 4.7-4.8 (with 2% TEA) and the viscosity is adjusted at 2000-5000 cP with 1.5% NaCl), while the inspiration shampoo has the pH 5 and the viscosity 1500 cP.


  • Glad to see people are still using time-tested parabens.I hesitated to recommend them but a good fit for your system.
  • em88em88 Member
    Thank you for your help.  I hope that everything will go well with this product. 
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