Seal/liner for liquid body wash

Hello professionals.

We have a line of liquid body wash. Here is our 8oz plastic PET bottle, which is non-changeable:

https://www.voyageursoapandcandle.com/8_oz_Amber_PET_Bullet_with_Disc_Cap_Black_p/72751.htm

We're using 24mm "pressure sensitive seals" which adhere very well:

https://www.voyageursoapandcandle.com/24_mm_Pressure_Sensitive_Seal_p/76085.htm

However, we've discovered recently (and I should have known earlier, had I done my research) that these seals *dissolve when soaked with the soap*. If they're dry, they work just fine. Lovely professional 'sealed for your safety' seals that they have to peel. However if the bottle is stored sideways for a week or several weeks, pieces of the seal seem to just disintegrate and are floating in the soap. Deal breaker!!

We've looked into induction foil seals (we were advised that due to the shape of our caps, these may not work..?), and other solutions.. but getting confused now.

Could someone please point me in the right direction? It's pretty simple what we're trying to achieve. Thank you-

Comments

  • I'll provide a photo of what our current pressure seal looks like after it's been stuck on via screwing the cap on tight:


  • I was told from a vendor of induction foil seals that due to the shape of the "inside of our disc cap" (which is quite standard, but apparently induction foil seals require completely flat inner cap surfaces..?), we may not be able to use induction foil seals..


  • AmeenAmeen Member

    stephanm   Pls check your inbox, you got PM
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Frankly, whatever is in your formula is unsuitable for putting on the skin, if it is dissolving those seals. Horrendous.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • "Horrendous!" No no, it's just fine. Perhaps 'dissolving' was a strong word. If the bottle is kept sideways, there comes a time - I'm not sure if it's 1 month, or a few months - where some bottom layer of the foam seal comes off and is floating in the soap. The seal from the exterior looks just fine, but there's some piece that always comes off inside.

    Looking back I see now that there are plenty of places which note that these seals are not meant for liquid products, so it does not seem to be an unexpected result - I just never noticed those warnings until I started searching..

    Anyway, would appreciate an alternative suggestion, something beyond calling our soap "horrendous", thanks :)
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    I have been using these seals for years with liquid products with no problems whatsoever. I suspect that your product has very high pH. I can't think of any other reason. What IS the pH?
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    is there any reason you absolutely have to have seals on your bottles?

    they are generally an unbelievable pain in the backside: unless you're legally obliged to have them I'd suggest you ditch them altogether

    if you want a very tight seal, a bore-seal cap made from the same material as the bottle is your best bet

    also, the image links in your posts appear to be broken (I'm using Firefox 52.0.1)
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • stephanmstephanm Member
    edited March 2017
    Bill - it just has a very, very unprofessional look if they are not sealed. We have company stakeholders that - back in the day - refused to even give samples to their friends because they weren't sealed and they found it personally embarrassing to hand out such products. It's simply not an option. We're in multiple locations at both a retail and commercial level - we simply *need* to be sealed.

    Regarding the broken links.. maybe I did something stupid like copy the photo from my personal Google Photos account! D'oh. Here let me try again..




  • stephanmstephanm Member
    edited March 2017
    ^ The current 'pressure sensitive seal' that we'd like to replace. 
  • And the inside of the disc cap lid, although we may be moving to a flip cap lid in the future:


  • Bill, do you happen to know if there exists a "foil-type" seal that is pressure sensitive and easy to apply as well?

    Or is the only option for foil the full "induction" process one?
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    edited March 2017
    whereabouts are you based?

    none of the major branders in my part of the world - Unilever, P&G, Cussons, Johnson & Johnson - sell cosmetics or toiletries in sealed bottles, and it's very unusual in the wider market as well; as far as cosmetics and toiletries are concerned, unsealed bottles are the norm

    and while induction seals are robust, they are not foolproof by any means; if they're out by 1-2 millimetres, or the rim of the bottle is not perfectly flat, or the electromagnet in the sealer is slightly misaligned or not in perfect working order, they will fail to seal properly, and end up causing more problems than they solve
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • Vancouver, BC (Canada) - I'm sure there's no regulation that requires for the seals, it's always just been something we've insisted on for sophistication and professionalism etc. But.. if it's truly not the norm, I guess I can bring it up with our managing director again, though I think I know how the decision will go..

    Bill, is the choice truly only between these pressure-sensitive foam seals and the induction type? I agree the induction foil sealers seem like a pain in the ass! Was hoping there was something simple and in the middle of these two options.. Something that had a more foil or plastic feel to them, meant for liquid products etc.

    Thank you-


  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    We use these on some of our difficult to seal products:
    http://www.mocap.com/plug-cap-tapered.html 
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • @Bobzchemist
    You're always the one that saves me here! From our early "what equipment should we invest in" to other questions regarding techniques and education, you pretty much helped us go from zero to 5+ retail locations! 

    The 2 links you provided don't work for me.. the first one is a 404 for me and the 2nd Alibaba link also shows up broken ("404 could not be located" on their end)

    But from the URLs I should be able to run some searches, thank you!
  • @Bobzchemist
    Aha, Alibaba is showing me plenty of "aluminizing pressure sensitive seal" search results. 

    This may be precisely what we're looking for! No equipment required (i.e. no induction sealing unit), but much more waterproof than the cheap foam things we're using now.

    Thanks for pointing me in this direction..
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    The mocap plugs look like this:
    MOCAP Plastic End Plugs
    Very low tech, just push them in by hand, then put your cap on. They might be a good stopgap while you test the pressure-sensitive aluminum.
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • Interesting. Thanks for the photo (I'm looking at the mocap.com site now as well.)

    I would certainly prefer the pressure-sensitive alum/foil seals, as the above caps seem to be a bit.. heavy-duty for mere body wash bottles! But nice to have an interim option.

    Oddly, enough, here's the response I've received from an Alibaba seller of the "
    High quality aluminizing pressure sensitive seal liner for cosmetics" product:

    Usually for liquid product, we do not suggest customers use foam pressure sensitive seal liner which is better for dry products.
    ...
    We suggest you use aluminum foil induction sealing liner which is better for liquid soap.

    .. Really? I thought the whole point of this being an "aluminized" version was that it would be OK with liquids..

    It was this one: https://gdfgpack.en.alibaba.com/product/60510493842-801694017/High_quality_aluminizing_pressure_sensitive_seal_liner_for_cosmetics_package.html
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