Do plant stem cells actually work for human skin?

Hi,
I can see more and more cosmetic brands are using stem cells derived from plants (apple, narcissus bulbs, etc). I am wondering, has anybody seen a credible evidence of such cells actually working on human skin? Do they even get to the basal layer in the skin where human stem cells cells reside? I have a feeling that this is a yet another marketing trick, but would not mind to be convinced in the opposite ;).

Comments

  • All I can say is, that I designed an antiwrinkle cream using pea polypeptides about 2 years ago, and now it is our best selling product; it appears to actually work. The only other item that shows similar results is the new Apprecier cream I am working on at the moment. Probably I will proceed to make a third cream with both these as main actives.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    And if they did work, they'd be a drug, and not a cosmetic. So it's probably a good thing that they don't
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • anaitanait Member
    So just as I thought - just a marketing trick. And so many cosmetic companies use it, even those that I considered to be good brands- unbelievable!
  • PharmaSpainPharmaSpain Member, PCF student
    about considering a cosmetic like a drug if they would actually work. Are not FDA and EMA "flexible" with products that could show some limited efficacy (if they are not sold as treatment or mention in the label that they have drug effects)? Maybe USA and EU are different in that aspect?

    I am not talking about what is the definition of cosmetics that is clear, I am talking about tolerance of the law to "small or limited effects" not announced as "medical drugs"
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @PharmaSpain - that's more of a legal question and will depend on who is interpreting the law. The FDA has recently written a position on these products


    In my reading they say that the important thing is a product's intent. If you are adding an ingredient that you intend to interact with the skin metabolism then that would seem to me to make it a drug even if you don't claim it. But perhaps my interpretation is wrong. 
  • PharmaSpainPharmaSpain Member, PCF student
    edited March 2016
    The problem is that I think FDA is not really clear:
    In the letter they are only clear talking about disease treatement.

    The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) warns cosmetics companies when they make claims about their products that classify them as drugs, not cosmetics. FDA has issued warning letters citing drug claims associated with topical skin care, hair care, and eyelash/eyebrow preparations, noted on both product labeling and Web sites. Some examples of the drug claims cited are acne treatment, dandruff treatment and hair restoration.

     Also they say cosmetics can not make drug claims. But when the "problematic" arrives and they have to say something like: "FDA will prosecute this claims" they are not clear again and they say:

    What if a skin product comes with the suggestion that it can turn back the biological clock? Consumers might think that these products can be used as effectively as, or instead of, more costly procedures, Liedtka says. “If a skin cream says it works better than a facelift … well, people wouldn’t be getting facelifts anymore.”

    Do you know if in EU cosmetics are allow to go a step more than just "visual enhancement" (not doing disease treatment claims of course)?

  • Frankly I think the idea that a cream cannot have a real physical effect on the skin is ridiculous. In my own tests on Apprecier's new Vitamin C compound, our tests produced up to a 90% reduction in photo-age spots. And you're going to tell me I am imagining that? I don't think so.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    You're not imagining it. It's just that the product you're selling would be technically illegal in the US by some people's reading. The only approved lightening ingredient in the US is Hydroquinone.
  • That's unfortunate. As I understand matters, hydroquinone is much riskier. So, basically, I have to infer that Showa Denko are likely to have poor sales of this new substance into the USA market? I'm fortunate to be in a marketplace which allows 'cosmeceuticals'. But what happens when I open our Amazon store and we get US customers buying such a product?
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Well, just make sure you don't use the claim "skin lightening" or any of the other claims that are considered drug claims by the FDA.

  • But here, I can. So I stock my new store at Amazon Mexico and then a US consumer buys it and Amazon ships it there, for instance. Or (same) EBay. Are US consumers doing anything wrong buying items from, say, China?
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    I would guess that those types of products would be seized by customs agents prior to be allowed into the country.  But I don't really know. 
  • PharmaSpainPharmaSpain Member, PCF student
    edited March 2016
    @Belassi I think you or your client can have problems in customs as Perry says. If something is illegal in some country, it can not go into. It does not matters if it is legal in origin country. Going to extreme: Imagine that cocaine would be legal somewhere. Could you import it?

    @Perry : is it legal to say in USA something like: "With Vit C". "Vitamin C can help to reduce age sun spots..." 
    I mean. You are saying 2 things that are true, but not saying that your product has this effect.... You could say the same from a orange juice and it would be not a lie.

    Do you know how is EU in terms of cosmeceuticals?
  • The problems that you would have no matter what is that your labeling would be off. I work for a company that is based outside of the US but work for the US subsidiary. We have products that claims, ingredients and all major parts would be legal in the US but we have chosen not to carry them here for whatever reason. If we find companies importing them for sale in the US we have to send a cease and desist because the labeling is not compliant and we could potentially run into issues. Even if we have nothing to do with them it would cost us resources having to prove such so we just nip it in the bud from the get go to prevent such issues. I would have a person familiar with US regulatory help you with the labels if you intend on selling across the border.
  •  I have a feeling that this is a yet another marketing trick

    You are correct. It is a marketing trick. The word "trick" is the polite way of stating, it is an outright lie. 
  • DavidDavid Member
    edited March 2016
    It still remains a bit fuzzy. What do we mean with that a cream "works". Is it that is sells?, is it that many customers are happy? Is it that the internal personnel note a difference? Or does the active ingredient have to be "proven" in a peer reviewed paper?
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @PharmaSpin - Well, I'm not a lawyer so I can't give legal advice.  It is illegal to make statements that are false so the "with Vitamin C" statement is fine if you are actually putting it in there.  The other claim "vitamin C can help reduce age spots..." is not necessarily true since there isn't any acceptable proof provided to the FDA about the ingredient doing that. But there may be a way to word it like "vitamin C has traditionally been believed to improve the appearance of age spots"

  • PharmaSpainPharmaSpain Member, PCF student
    @Perry but lightening power is more or less proven isn´t?. You wrote about that in this post: http://thebeautybrains.com/2014/05/which-kind-of-vitamin-c-is-best-for-skin-the-beauty-brains-show-episode-31/

    About ascorbic acid you said:
    ""
    Ascorbic Acid (AA)
    Is it Stable? Stable at pH less than 3.5 in aqueous solution and it’s stable in anhydrous systems

    Does it penetrate? Ex vivo testing proves it penetrates as a solution or micro particles

    Does it convert to Ascorbic Acid? No conversion required.

    Protects from UV damage: Yes, human in vivo testing.

    Increases collagen synthesis: Yes, human in vivo testing.

    Reduces skin pigmentation: Yes, human in vivo testing.

    ""

    It is true that I did not read any FDA study about that (i do not work with vitamine c so I did not have to yet) but coming from you I supposed it was as you said but now i see that maybe I did not correctly understood something. Could you please clarify me this? 

    Thanks
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Great question.

    Proven in a scientific paper is not the same as proven as to the FDA requirements.

    To have a new ingredient added to an OTC monograph the FDA has specific testing requirements.  These have not been met for vitamin C in regards to lightening. 
  • Doesn't appear to be particularly effective for lightning in vivo either...so...significantly effective for other aspects apparently. 

    Pretty tricky to start calling it a drug as opposed to a vitamin, open a whole new can of worms in the supplement industry 
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