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Benchmarket reproduction fail
Hi. I hired a experienced formulator to make an eye cream with a texture similar to this one from Shiseido:
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Benefiance Wrinkle Smoothing Eye Cream: WATER(AQUA/EAU)･HYDROGENATED POLYDECENE･MINERAL OIL (PARAFFINUM LIQUIDUM/HUILE MINERALE)･GLYCERIN･BUTYLENE GLYCOL･PARAFFIN･MICROCRYSTALLINE WAX(CERA MICROCRISTALLINA/CIRE MICROCRISTALLINE)･POLYGLYCERYL-2 DIISOSTEARATE･SQUALANE･GLYCERYL OLEATE･SODIUM GLUTAMATE･SODIUM PCA･DIPROPYLENE GLYCOL･CARNOSINE･BEESWAX(CERA ALBA/CIRE D’ABEILLE)･POLYETHYLENE･TOCOPHERYL ACETATE･PHYTOSTERYL/OCTYLDODECYL LAUROYL GLUTAMATE･CAFFEINE･PEG/PPG-14/7 DIMETHYL ETHER･SAPINDUS MUKOROSSI PEEL EXTRACT･UNCARIA GAMBIR EXTRACT･ANGELICA KEISKEI LEAF/STEM EXTRACT･CRATAEGUS MONOGYNA FLOWER EXTRACT･SANGUISORBA OFFICINALIS ROOT EXTRACT･PANAX GINSENG ROOT EXTRACT･CAMELLIA SINENSIS LEAF EXTRACT･SODIUM ACETYLATED HYALURONATE･ZIZIPHUS JUJUBA FRUIT EXTRACT･EUCHEUMA SERRA/GRATELOUPIA SPARSA/SACCHARINA ANGUSTATA/ULVA LINZA/UNDARIA PINNATIFIDA EXTRACT･SODIUM LACTATE･CURCUMA LONGA (TURMERIC) RHIZOME EXTRACT･SACCHARINA ANGUSTATA/UNDARIA PINNATIFIDA EXTRACT･CHLORELLA VULGARIS EXTRACT･ALCOHOL･TRISODIUM EDTA･TOCOPHEROL･SODIUM METABISULFITE･PPG-3 DIPIVALATE･LINALOOL･LIMONENE･CITRONELLOL･GERANIOL･ALPHA-ISOMETHYL IONONE･BHT･ALPINIA SPECIOSA LEAF EXTRACT･CARBOMER･POLYSORBATE 20･PALMITOYL TRIPEPTIDE-1･PALMITOYL TETRAPEPTIDE-7･ETHYLPARABEN･METHYLPARABEN･FRAGRANCE (PARFUM)･IRON OXIDES (CI 77492)･IRON OXIDES (CI 77491)･
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Although it’s an extremely thick and “rich” cream, it spreads very well and has any odor from the base at all.
After about 50 prototypes, our texture isn’t even near. 🙁
Some has a grainy texture, others don’t spready well and all of them have a bad odor even adding fragrance.
My formulator says the odor is because all A/O emulsifiers smell bad, but I think it’s also he doesn’t want to use petrolatum / mineral oil / polyethyelene etc. even after we said we have no problem with that at all!
I’m thinking about hiring a cosmetic formulator consultant in the US. We don’t have all suppliers in my country,, but we have Croda, Basf, Seppic, Evonik, Clariant etc.
Please, does anyone have a good name to suggest who could make what we want to?
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10 Replies
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What are you using instead of Mineral oil, hydrogenated polydecene, etc? Maybe you can tell us what your ingredientes are (without percentages), so we can check what can be causing the olor.
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I don’t know exactly, he’s a cosmetic chemist consultant and not showed the formula yet, but about 30% of Cetiol 5C, vegetable waxes and A/O emulsifiers.
Odor isn’t the only problem… the texture is tend to be matte and a bit wavy, like greey yogurt, while the bench is glossy and slick.
The bench from Shiseido and others that aren’t too diferent, like Estee Lauder, have polyethylene and petrolatum… but there’s no way he want to use that and I think this is the reason why our texture isn’t so beautiful.
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As @ketchito has pointed out, maybe more Formula information would be helpful. That ingredient list is pretty pricey and I imagine substitutions may have been made.
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A formulator who won’t use mineral oil or petrolatum when the client says those are fine to use, isn’t much of a formulator. There’s a weird trend in our industry of formulators calling themselves “clean” or “green” formulators. Which is fine from a marketing standpoint. But if they can’t use standard ingredients to emulate benchmarks, that is a significant hole in their skill set. This is what happens when someone takes a class from an organic beauty school and thinks it qualifies them to be a formulator.
Anyway, see the list of chemists on this forum and just be upfront about what you want. If they say they won’t work with petrolatum don’t work with them.
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Hi guys!
An update: two years trying to replicate something similar to this bench and nothing until now! More than one formulator… experient ones, with many years in multinationals etc.
All formulatos when they see the product they say it’s not difficult to make at all. But when they start a lot of problems happen.
For instance: in one protototype they can make something so thicky like the bench, but then it doesn’t spread so well like the bench.
In another one the phases separate in two weeks. Then they make another product with the same stability of the bench, but smells bad (the bench has any bad odor).
If the prototype spreads so well, then it’s much “thiner”.
A lot of protypes gain granules as well.
Just some examples of problems that occur with the protypes. There’s also rolling an others.
Almost 100 prototypes already.
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@pma I agree with Mark and kethcito that concentrations are needed for your benchmark clone project. I’ll agree with Perry that these formulator “consultants” are not very astute especially when they disrespect mineral oil and paraffin. Suspend all of the botanicals and market-trendy add-ons here and you have a basic w/o emulsion that is being hindered with ingredients indicated for o/w emulsions and it does not like that one bit. The “consultants” should have seen that and reformulated accordingly dropping many of these ingredients (do not assume the Shiseido peeps were on the ball either.) The polyglyceryl-3 diisostearate and glyceryl oleate is the primary emulsifier while beeswax/mineral oil/microcrystalline wax/paraffin forms what we call an “absorption base” in cosmetic science parlance, and typically used to stabilize w/o systems. The polyethylene may have been added to hinder syneresis, but that can create “grainy” appearance on its own. DELETE carbomer, PCA, sodium glutamate, lauroyl glutamate, sodium lactate, metabisulfite (why?? when there is tocopherol already there), polysorbate 20, alcohol…virtually any material in the internal (water) phase that has no reason to be there; or at least add at only 0.001%. Always premix those iron oxide pigments into oils or glycerin first (the “grind”) in this case likely that PPG dimethyl ether wetting agent and glycerin/glycols. Any more than this and you will need to pay me…on second thought don’t bother, this subject already pisses me off.
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From where I’m sitting, that’s a very complex formulation for an eye cream. I would be looking at a much simpler oil formulation in a dropper bottle, and without all the synthetics.
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I used to like that eye cream but never attempted making it because of all those waxes serve as a good repellent for me. It isn’t easy to make it right (recrystalisation). Having said that you can achieve something very similar with fatty alcohols and different emulsifiers. You absolutely must keep mineral oil if you are not after ‘natural’ skincare that grows on trees. I would guess the oil phase in that product is at least 15% (I personally would try 20). I would go for a combination of 4% cetyl alcohol and 3% cetyl palmitate, or 3% of cetyl alcohol and 2% of beeswax (some would say it’s a lot but I remember that cream, it’s very thick). I would use 0.4% xanthan gum because acrylic acid based polymers won’t create the right texture for that particular product. 5% of eight Ceteareth 20 or Glyceryl Stearate+PEG 100 stearate to stabilize relatively high oil phase. Try that and if it’s not thick enough up cetyl alcohol. Also go for higher weight mineral oil/hydrocarbons. Hope this works. Good luck.
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Just to be clear, what I suspected above is oil in water not water in oil. W/O introduces stability problems and what can happen is you finally get that perfect texture after 200 attempts and it separates after one month. I like W/Os and experiment with them a lot but if you can replicate the texture without making it W/O you should try. They are highly unpredictable. You can see foundations of the largest brands separating (l saw L’Oreal trumatch already separating while still on the shelf in Boots), and I bet they have all of the knowledge and resources.
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*suggested.. edit button is very much needed
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