Argan vs Jojoba oil

OladooOladoo Member
Between argan and jojoba oil which is better for an acne-prone face oil?

Comments

  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Oladoo:

    Argan Oil ... Jojoba Oil is actually a wax and it may have a propensity to clog hair follicles, exactly the opposite of what you want in an acne-oriented face oil.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • OladooOladoo Member
    OK. Thank you
  • DtdangDtdang Member
    Rosehip seed oils is better choice.
    Find the oil with less oleic acid and more linoleic acid. Oleic acids produce too much in oil causing a lot of problems.
  • PaprikPaprik Member
    For me? Neither, haha. Argan is "greasy" and heavy and Jojoba, as been said, is a wax. [Argan would be great for drier more mature skin]

    Grapeseed oil, Hemp seed oil, Rosehip Oil ... those should be your picks :)
  • CinemaCinema Member
    @Oladoo from what I have read in the past, hemp oil is the best for oily acne prone skin- it balances the sebum production and it has the beneficial ratio of oleic, linoleic and gamma linoleic acids (GLA) that are needed. Second best is grape seed oil. 

  • OladooOladoo Member
    Wow. Thank you @Dtdang @Paprik @Cinema
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Hemp Seed and Grapeseed oil are also two of the most oxidatively unstable.

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    Argan oil doesn't have anything special to justify the high price. 
    Hemp seed oil doesn't feel oily no matter how much of it you put to skin but it doesn't regulate the sebum. If you have oily skin you have oily skin. 
    Jojoba oil reduces the sebum production. I mean noticable reduction. If you have oily face and use it for a few weeks and then stop using it your face will be dry if you don't put some oil or lotion on it. 

    I had severe ance and very oily face and it's scares are on my face. But Now I don't get acne. I think acne is age related. I am 27 now.

  • OladooOladoo Member
    Thanks
  • DtdangDtdang Member
    @Microformulation, Is vitamin E added to Hemp for improving stability?

  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Dtdang said:
    @Microformulation, Is vitamin E added to Hemp for improving stability?

    We will add Tocopherol to the final Formulations, but honestly some CBD suppliers do and some don't. You have little control over the supplier. They will include it in the compositional breakdown. For example, we wanted our CBD in Squalane (do your research on that), and can only get it in MCT.


    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited July 9
    For example, we wanted our CBD in Squalane (do your research on that), and can only get it in MCT.


    Are you making just a CBD oil?  Or are you making an emulsion to deliver your CBD?

    You must be referring to this kind of result?



    I am working together with one of the chemist on this site to make a pain relief cream....and we use both (Squalane and CBD)... but the Squalane is only at 1%.  Do you think that is enough to enhance the delivery?

    I am essentially making my own infusion, as I buy the CBD as an isolate.  Do you use the pure CBD...or the one with some extra goodies?
  • DrJekyllDrJekyll Member
    edited July 9
    @Graillotion
    CBD, I think, works better in it's natural context (at least some of it). The "entourage effect" means that if you use a CBD product (in this case) in it's natural context it works better. Especially the dose-effect relation is much less critical when you use a broad spectrum CBD product for your cream (or per oral).

    With CBD I would alway's opt for an simple and easy oil extraction of the hemp plant to obtain my broad spectrum CBD extract... No alcohol involved...

    For the same reason THC pills, for example, are known to cause side effects ppl. don't experience if they use it in it's natural context (headache)
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Your best bet for CBD is CBD Rosin obtained via a relatively low temperature pressing.  That will give you to full spectrum of the plant terpenes and cannabinoids.  It is a solvent-less process ... just plant, heat and pressure.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    edited July 9
    The entourage effect refers to the potentiation of effect when THC is used at 10:1 THC:CBD or even 20:1. If you read the early Israeli studies it is discussed at length.

    We are making a CBD emulsion and the extraction facility produces the extract. This is required in NC where the company is.

    We include the Squalane in the lipid partition.

    The DEA is still silent, but their current opinion is if your product has greater than 0.3 mg/mg percent, you have an illegal product. The lack of a definitive answer thus far has many extraction facilities worried.

    Based upon what I have learned at an FDA conference, I would not extract my own CBD unless I could test it for standardization.

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • seaberryseaberry Member
    Personally, I find safflower oil very lightweight and easily absorbed. It also has a high proportion of linoleic acid, which some studies found to be deficient in acne-prone skin.
  • I have read about the entourage effect, and that is what I was referencing with the term....'extra goodies' :)  As I have to this point...essentially used marketing blurbs as my research, I would love some solid scientific links, pertaining to the entourage effect. @DrJekyll and @Microformulation.  I have a ultra healthy suspicion of suppliers, especially when they are not providing data.  Hence I had assumed that the entourage effect...even though very plausible sounding....was marketing hype...designed to market a product that was easier to produce without all the extra steps of refinement.

    As I am still formulating this project, I am still open to play the field as far as CBD suppliers. @MarkBroussard is there a reasonable priced supplier of CBD Rosin in the US, that will sell it at super small amounts?  (Right now I am buying 10-25 grams of isolate at a time, while formulating.)  So you feel the Rosin is much better than the Isolate I have been using?

    I am also trying to keep the product essentially THC free...even at the tester level, I have seen great concern in this regard.  Various testers have jobs or military careers they absolutely can not jeopardize.

    I am ready to learn more factual info on the entourage effect...hopefully a THC free version of the entourage effect.

    Aloha.
  • DrJekyllDrJekyll Member
    edited July 10
    If you use a reliable strain of hemp that is known for it's low THC content it's very hard to end up with a high THC CBD-oil; it's an extract so you will only be able to extract part of the (already low) THC content of the plant. I am sure you figured this out already. Unless you start concentrating the extract that is.

    Anyway's..., I do agree that without testing it's hard to know how strong your CBD extract will be. Maybe an alcohol extract is the best way to go for you (if you want alcohol to be part of the process/product) I mentioned an oil extraction, but on second thought I think that would be impractical. You cant't concentrate an oil extract after you made it. With an alcohol extract you can evaporate solvent to end up with a high CBD content. CBD testing isn't that expensive in Europe. I am not sure if there is a reliable affordable test for CBD. Testing of the same sample can give different readings if my memory serves me well..

    This might be a good starting point for you @Graillotion:
    It's more complex then the THC vs CBD relation. But broad spectrum is our friend basically :)
    https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?hl=nl&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1&q=entourage+effect+cannabis+scholar&btnG=

  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    If you use a reputable supplier, you will get testing results and documentation. I have a stock of this reports about an inch thick just of these documents.

    Any product you use in a retail product should be standardized by analytical testing. It is good science and believe me, any reputable seller will demand it.

    I definitely understood the oblique references to other goodies. Many people in the field believe that should THC be decriminalized, we will see a shift away from CBD.

    My client has sold over 75,000 pieces of our Formulation. Nobody has ever pushed back on the small presence of THC. That is objective data.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Grallotion:

    I don't know anyone who sells Rosin in small amounts.  What you would be purchasing is CBD Rosin diluted in a carrier oil and tested to ensure the THC content is below 0.3%.  Some suppliers are open about their extraction process be it CO2, solvent or press.

    Yes, I think a CBD extract of any type would be better than CBD isolate.  I've worked with both, and while I don't believe the "entourage effect" has been proven to be true, using CBD isolate completely eliminates any possibility of synergistic effects between the various components of a CBD extract.  If complete THC-free is your requirement, that will be a challenge to source.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited July 10
    @Grallotion:



    Yes, I think a CBD extract of any type would be better than CBD isolate.  I've worked with both, and while I don't believe the "entourage effect" has been proven to be true, using CBD isolate completely eliminates any possibility of synergistic effects between the various components of a CBD extract.  
    Are you saying....the only drawback to the CBD isolate (vs CBD extract)...is the lack of secondary components?  (I can live with that.)  

    Where I have been buying my CBD isolate...they also sell CBN, CBG, and CBC.  With pain in mind...if I were to blend one of these in...which would you choose?
  • Here is the comparison from my vendor:

    CBD Distillate

    CBD is put through a process of heating and cooling to produce CBD distillate, a much purer, cleaner and more potent form of the compound. CBD distillate typically contains about 90% CBD. While CBD distillate doesn’t contain as high a concentration of CBD as CBD isolate, it does retain many of the other therapeutic compounds in the cannabis plant, like terpenes, vitamins, waxes and antioxidants. Made using a process of chromatography, CBD distillate comes in liquid form.

    CBD Isolate

    Even more concentrated than CBD distillate is CBD isolate, containing 99% CBD. For people with allergies or other reactions to the terpenes, waves or other compounds in cannabis, CBD offers the cleanest form of the compound. Typically made through a process of CO2 extraction, CBD isolate comes in refined, white powder form that can be added to foods, beverages, topicals and tinctures alike


    So if I understand that....the distillate with give me some of the secondary goodies?  @MarkBroussard

  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Grallotion:



    Yes, I think a CBD extract of any type would be better than CBD isolate.  I've worked with both, and while I don't believe the "entourage effect" has been proven to be true, using CBD isolate completely eliminates any possibility of synergistic effects between the various components of a CBD extract.  
    Are you saying....the only drawback to the CBD isolate (vs CBD extract)...is the lack of secondary components?  (I can live with that.)  

    Where I have been buying my CBD isolate...they also sell CBN, CBG, and CBC.  With pain in mind...if I were to blend one of these in...which would you choose?
    I would use a combination of CBD and CBG
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • @Grallotion:



    Yes, I think a CBD extract of any type would be better than CBD isolate.  I've worked with both, and while I don't believe the "entourage effect" has been proven to be true, using CBD isolate completely eliminates any possibility of synergistic effects between the various components of a CBD extract.  
    Are you saying....the only drawback to the CBD isolate (vs CBD extract)...is the lack of secondary components?  (I can live with that.)  

    Where I have been buying my CBD isolate...they also sell CBN, CBG, and CBC.  With pain in mind...if I were to blend one of these in...which would you choose?
    I would use a combination of CBD and CBG
    I find it about impossible to find dosing for the cannabinoids (this of course is intentional), so any idea on dosing for a cream?  I am using 1% of CBD Isolate....I assume I will keep that the same, and just add some CBG.  Since it is a pricey ingredient (more than double the cost of CBD), what level would I have to include to hopefully create an effect?

    Obviously inclusion rate hinges on potency....so let's use this as an example:

    Untitled (industrialhempfarms.com)

  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Grallotion:



    Yes, I think a CBD extract of any type would be better than CBD isolate.  I've worked with both, and while I don't believe the "entourage effect" has been proven to be true, using CBD isolate completely eliminates any possibility of synergistic effects between the various components of a CBD extract.  
    Are you saying....the only drawback to the CBD isolate (vs CBD extract)...is the lack of secondary components?  (I can live with that.)  

    Where I have been buying my CBD isolate...they also sell CBN, CBG, and CBC.  With pain in mind...if I were to blend one of these in...which would you choose?
    I would use a combination of CBD and CBG
    I find it about impossible to find dosing for the cannabinoids (this of course is intentional), so any idea on dosing for a cream?  I am using 1% of CBD Isolate....I assume I will keep that the same, and just add some CBG.  Since it is a pricey ingredient (more than double the cost of CBD), what level would I have to include to hopefully create an effect?

    Obviously inclusion rate hinges on potency....so let's use this as an example:

    Untitled (industrialhempfarms.com)

    You formulate CBD products to a target load of CBD (or CBG) in milligrams per unit.  It looks like you're making a cream with 1,000 mg CBD, which is a good strength for a pain management product.  It's completely up to you on the strength.  You might do 1,000 mg CBD + 200 - 400 mg CBG, for instance.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited July 10
    @Grallotion:



    Yes, I think a CBD extract of any type would be better than CBD isolate.  I've worked with both, and while I don't believe the "entourage effect" has been proven to be true, using CBD isolate completely eliminates any possibility of synergistic effects between the various components of a CBD extract.  
    Are you saying....the only drawback to the CBD isolate (vs CBD extract)...is the lack of secondary components?  (I can live with that.)  

    Where I have been buying my CBD isolate...they also sell CBN, CBG, and CBC.  With pain in mind...if I were to blend one of these in...which would you choose?
    I would use a combination of CBD and CBG
    I find it about impossible to find dosing for the cannabinoids (this of course is intentional), so any idea on dosing for a cream?  I am using 1% of CBD Isolate....I assume I will keep that the same, and just add some CBG.  Since it is a pricey ingredient (more than double the cost of CBD), what level would I have to include to hopefully create an effect?

    Obviously inclusion rate hinges on potency....so let's use this as an example:

    Untitled (industrialhempfarms.com)

    You formulate CBD products to a target load of CBD (or CBG) in milligrams per unit.  It looks like you're making a cream with 1,000 mg CBD, which is a good strength for a pain management product.  It's completely up to you on the strength.  You might do 1,000 mg CBD + 200 - 400 mg CBG, for instance.
    Thank you for your helpful insights Mark.  In this scenario, as a pain cream formulator, I am very hamstrung by not suffering from any type of chronic pain, thereby eliminating myself as a test subject.  Do you have anyone in-house (literally and figuratively) that suffers pain that a cream like this might mitigate?  I am always looking for test subjects that can provide quality feedback.  If so, I would love to send you a sample.  You can PM me...with address.
    This is not a half-a$$ formula....it is made with watchful oversight and input from someone I believe you respect, someone who's PhD focused on phytochemistry and pharmacognosy. :) 
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