no salt please

Please explain the current trend of no salt added sulfate free shampoo formulations?  How did this get started?  What do you do in your formulation to increase viscosity if you can't really use salt.

Comments

  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Henry:

    Seriously? ... Salt is now a bad actor ingredient?

    These things get started on the internet generally by "beauty influencers":  Remember ... Any idiot can post anything on the internet at any time ... and, several people will believe it.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    Good grief

  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Henry:

    You must realize that these people need content to keep people coming back to their websites.  Better yet, if the content is "controversial" or challenges established norms.

    So, what do they do ... they make sh*t up ... Do you think that Tucker Carlson actually uses salt-free, sulfate-free shampoo?
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    I believe some of this trend started because people with Keratin treatments (straightening) are told that salt will ruin the effect. Another is a conflation of thinking Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Sodium Chloride are somehow the same material. 

    Since many mainstream brands use sodium chloride in their formulas, I could see a marketer taking that bit of information and effectively using it for fear marketing.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I have seen these lines attest in their marketing that Sodium chloride is drying to the hair and/or will increase breakage. Bunk.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • PaprikPaprik Member
    @perry is right! It is about Keratin treatments
    I've recently made a conditioner and everyone loved it. Then, they started to ask me for a salt free shampoo. I also had no idea why, but they explained it to me. It's all about the Keratin. A lot of my friends in here are Brazilians and they do a lot of those treatments.
    There is not many salt free shampoos in NZ, sooooo it may be a good area to investigate and strike :) 
  • HenryHenry Member
    @MarkBroussard I think Tucker Carlson has amazing hair!!!  
    So what can I use to increase the viscosity since salt is off the table????
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Henry:

    You can always just tell your clients that your shampoo is actually thick, that the thin viscosity is just a figment of their imagination ... or, even better yet, that it's Barack Obama's fault

    The best thickener I have used recently is from Applechem ... Sorbithix L-100
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Use betaine (aka trimethyl glycine) instead of salt. Likely requires a somewhat higher %, certainly costs more, but it's a common & hyped nutrient supplement (an amino acid derivative and pseudo-vitamin), good humectant (love it), and doesn't sound 'salty' unless you accidentally mention that it is what chemists call 'an inner salt' ;) .
  • abieroseabierose Member
    edited June 22
    @Henry @MarkBroussard Or you could use Sea Salt and market it for its "beneficial" uses in hair and skin products.... 🤭  A quick Google search shows some people are already working this angle...

    "Salt shampoos are great on natural hair for removing product buildup, adding volume, and giving the hair incredible shine," stylist Sunnie Brook Jones tells us. "I also like to suggest applying a hair mask to just the ends before getting in the shower to shampoo." Aug 7, 2017

    "Yes, salt in shampoo is used by people who want to boost their hair growth. This trick is also used to stop hair loss. So, if you're having hair loss, then try to use this trick and see the result. All you need to do is, wash your hair and massage the scalp with the sea salt in shampoo thoroughly" Jul 6, 2017

    https://m.dailyhunt.in/news/india/english/youngisthan-epaper-youngeng/yes+adding+salt+in+your+shampoo+will+solve+all+your+hair+problems+and+here+s+how-newsid-69923345

    ....Re-mineralize your hair and promote growth with our Newly Formulated Pink Blush Himalayan Sea Salt Shampoo! 

    🤣🤣🤣
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    edited June 22
    abierose said:
    @Henry @MarkBroussard Or you could use Sea Salt and market it for its "beneficial" uses in hair and skin products.... 🤭  A quick Google search shows some people are already working this angle...


    Good point - your choice - which bunch of gullible folks will be your target.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    LOL!

    This is a perfect example of how marketers find ways to "spin" some reason for using or not using Salt (ie: any ingredient) in a shampoo, both of which have little to no merit and neither of which have anything to do with the function of the ingredient in the formula.

    Other than that it is a really inexpensive thickener provided the surfactants you are using are responsive to salt thickening, salt really does not have any impact on hair.

    But, salt-free for people who use Keratin treatments, I suspect may has some merit.  If so, then why not just market it that way?

    Sorbithix L-100, Henry.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • HenryHenry Member
    would Glcamate DOE-120 or Cocamide MIPA be a good choice?
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Henry:

    Actually, you could try using both.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • abieroseabierose Member
    PhilGeis said:
    abierose said:
    @Henry @MarkBroussard Or you could use Sea Salt and market it for its "beneficial" uses in hair and skin products.... 🤭  A quick Google search shows some people are already working this angle...


    Good point - your choice - which bunch of gullible folks will be your target.
    Exactly, 😆
  • abieroseabierose Member
    @PhilGeis it never ceases to amaze me the ability for some to just read something once on the internet and believe it without question. The internet is a treasure trove of misinformation, but with a little extra time and effort, you can use it to dig a little deeper and research these outrageous claims and actually educate one's self. It's so frustrating to read some ridiculous statement or claim regularly and know that there will be people who will read the same thing and believe it. I'm sure I've been guilty of it too in the past but I can say that anytime I read something questionable, I will research it to death before taking it as truth! And my research includes asking the experts on this forum 😊
  • DavidDavid Member
    Salt free is not only fear marketing, it is also false. Many surfactants inherently contain salt, such as cocamidopropyl betaine, which normally contains around 5% NaCl, although often "forgotten" on the list of ingredients. Then you have ingredients such as Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, which is the sodium salt of Sulfonic acids, C14-16-alkane hydroxy and C14-16-alkene.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    @abierose wow 
    Today i learned a lot about importance of marking from your comment.
    Appreciated
  • abieroseabierose Member
    @Abdullah "...importance of marking.."...? Sorry, I don't understand...can you explain this to me?
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    @abierose my mistake. I mean marketing. 
  • abieroseabierose Member
    @Abdullah that's what I thought but I wanted to clarify. Then after seeing Henry's comment...I didn't know if your comment to me was sarcastic or sincere 🤷‍♀️ Either way, no worries. If you were being sincere, my background is graphic/web design and marketing. However as I learn more and more about how much deception goes into cosmetic marketing, I've become a bit disenchanted with all of it. Most every cosmetic ingredient that we as consumers have been led to believe works is actually just "clever marketing" and so a lot of my comments are just a way to make light of it all. Anyway, whatever. 🥱
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