Does %0.2 EDTA and water at pH 7 need Preservative?

AbdullahAbdullah Member
I want to make a Product to make the hard water soft during hair wash. It would be %0.3 or 0.2 EDTA and water at pH around 7. Add a teaspoon of this to some water and rinse the hair with that water.

Does this product (%0.2-0.3 EDTA and water at pH 7 need Preservative? 

Any thoughts on such product?


Comments

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    EDTA is not a preservative.
    I can't say that I think your product idea that great. You could likely do as much with baking soda in water (adjust pH to 5-5.5). It doesn't complex calcium but it does make hard water feel softer. And/or use sodium hexametaphosphate (best at neutral pH) or phytic acid (any pH) as a water softener.
    All these are more eco-friendly than EDTA.
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    edited June 1
    As Pharma said, you'll need a preservative and prob a sodium salt of EDTA..
    Eco-friendly - gack - meaningless advertising for the rubes.  Your proposed use is irrelevant to the environment.  
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    edited June 1
    I worked on a project just like this in the past. A company wanted to test people's water for hardness and then "customize" a shampoo/conditioner product for the client. In testing, however, it showed no real significant benefit at all levels. The takeaway was that water hardness was much less significant with syndets than with traditional saponified soaps.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    edited June 2
    @Pharma @PhilGeis this product doesn't have anything other than water and chelating agent. Why would microbes grow there?

    How much phytic acid and hexametaphosphate makes 1L hard water soft? 
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    edited June 2
    @Microformulation thanks
    How was the water hardness with liquid Shampoo? 
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    edited June 2
    I have to skirt NDA's, but in general terms at no level of EDTA did we see any change in the foam properties when compared to a control. They did consumer testing and the reviewers noted no real change in performance. I believe afterward they went forward but expanded the concept to "shampoos custom made." I would suppose it might be more significant with a saponified soap-based shampoo such as a Castille Soap.

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    @Microformulation my focus is less on foam and more in preventing calcium attachment to hair and removing attached calcium from hair. Would it be helpful for this? 
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    Abdullah said:
    @Pharma @PhilGeis this product doesn't have anything other than water and chelating agent. Why would microbes grow there?

    How much phytic acid and hexametaphosphate makes 1L hard water soft? 
    Bacteria can grow in distilled water - there is no need for what folks think of as "bug food".

    How much theoretically depends on how hard you anticipate water to be.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    @PhilGeis thanks 😊
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