Skin Feel Difference Between Liquid Lecithin and Deoiled/Powdered Lecithin

Hello, 

I am wondering if anyone has worked with deoiled or powdered lecithin and can tell me how it’s emollient capabilities stacks up against liquid lecithin? Liquid lecithin seems like a dream to me because of how it gives a nice creamy/dewy finish to emulsions but the high oil content worries me as my skin is very particular. If anyone has worked with deoiled or powdered lecithin and can share their experience I would be most grateful! If you also have some formulation suggestions or tricks on how to work with the powdered form that would be amazing! 

Thank y’all in advance 

Comments

  • suswang8suswang8 Member
    Good question, so bumping. 

    Also, julia, what % of liquid lecithin were you planning on using?  It is regarded as being a very potent emulsifier, although I always had issues with stability after several days.     
  • emma1985emma1985 Member
    Yes good question, I'm interested as well.

    I love the skinfeel of lecithin especially in cleansing products, but can't deal with the odor and color, so I'm wondering if the powdered version removes some of these issues.
  • suswang8 said:
    Good question, so bumping. 

    Also, julia, what % of liquid lecithin were you planning on using?  It is regarded as being a very potent emulsifier, although I always had issues with stability after several days.     
    Hello! I plan on using just 3%. I wonder what was causing it to become unstable, might I ask how much lecithin you used? 
  • suswang8suswang8 Member
    Hi, @Juliatrudie

    It's been a while since I was experimenting left and right, but I used Emultop Velvet IP a couple times, at something like 2% concentration, plus 10% oils.  Emultop is an oiled, enriched soy lecithin.  In most cases, the formula would look fine for a couple days, but then fall apart.  I was using several other ingredients (powdered extracts, niacinamide, etc.), so I'm not sure of the main driver.  I perhaps did not spend long enough blending/homogenizing as this is a very high-maintenance ingredient. 

    I also experimented with powdered/de-oiled lysolecithin from Cosphatec, which is quite a nice product, but some regard it as a co-emulsifier, not a primary one.  (Incidentally, it is still stable as a sole emulsifier at 4% in a simple hand cream two months after formulating.)   This product has an excellent, silicone-like skin feel, with a finish that is more matte than the Emultop, but allegedly the skin benefits of lysolecithin are not as great as lecithin, especially when enriched (outside my comprehension, though).  I think where I had last left off was trying to create something with a mix of this lyso plus the Emultop, so that the finish was slightly dewy and yet skin feel was silicone-ish.

    Today, I started playing around with the Cosphatec oiled lysolecithin, with a first batch using ~1.75% of it, plus 8% almond oil.  With only 2% glycerin, it still feels a bit more sticky than ideal, but I'm quite picky.  I used a cold-process method described here.

    I've never had an issue with odor, but that is of course highly dependent on what else you're using in the product. 

    I have a strange feeling that lysolecithin is causing my face to flush slightly -- not sure yet.

    What have your experiences been so far?



  • DrJekyllDrJekyll Member
    @suswang8: there is a very good chance niamicide makes your face blush. I suppose you meant to sqay "blush" isn't it?

    I have read about it and I experienced it myself when I ingested a niacimide supplement (high dosage for sporters). NEVER ever again. My skin got very very red in several places on my body. It felt incredibly hot. Just like blushing. Man I was scared... I was in the gym when it happened.... It's a rare side effect of niamicide. People do get it, more locally, after applying it to the skin.. Hope it helps
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    @Juliatrudie The grade of lecithin most commonly used in food and DIY personal care formulation is the 55% "crude" in soybean oil. (Most lecithin derives from soy). The grades with higher phosphatidylcholine (PC) work best in emulsification. I don't think lecithin is ever a wise choice for emolliency, especially noting the common side effect of "nicotine flush" described by @suswang8 and @DrJekyll. Use it at 1.00% active or less to emulsify high triglyceride oil loads, but remember you MUST employ a co-emulsifier or you'll not only observe the instability you saw but lecithin-built emulsions will exhibit the "gloop factor" if used alone. Unless "gloop" is what you are shooting for of course, then disregard. Also, remember PC is anionic so do not tempt fate and use a cationic material with it.
  • suswang8suswang8 Member
    My very simple formulas are stable after one week (not much, but still thankful :smiley: ) so I might press my luck and create something more complex, but I know you are correct -- deep down inside -- that they will eventually bomb.  What are the most commonly used ingredients in facial moisturizers that are cationic? 

    I have to say I really love the very light consistency of it.  I do wonder what else I could use that's similar, natural, non-comedogenic, and potent in that one would only need to use a low percentage of it.

    I think blush/flush are roughly the same thing.  Basically, I meant that it seemed to turn my face rosy (and this sample formula does not have niacinamide in it).
  • DrJekyllDrJekyll Member
    suswang8 said:
    ...I think blush/flush are roughly the same thing....

    Ah..., is it?. I obviously didn't know! Not a native english speaker :smile:. Anyways..., there was no niamicide in it.

  • @Juliatrudie The grade of lecithin most commonly used in food and DIY personal care formulation is the 55% "crude" in soybean oil. (Most lecithin derives from soy). The grades with higher phosphatidylcholine (PC) work best in emulsification. I don't think lecithin is ever a wise choice for emolliency, especially noting the common side effect of "nicotine flush" described by @suswang8 and @DrJekyll. Use it at 1.00% active or less to emulsify high triglyceride oil loads, but remember you MUST employ a co-emulsifier or you'll not only observe the instability you saw but lecithin-built emulsions will exhibit the "gloop factor" if used alone. Unless "gloop" is what you are shooting for of course, then disregard. Also, remember PC is anionic so do not tempt fate and use a cationic material with it.
    Thank you so so much @chemicalmatt! I will definitely be using a co emulsifier!
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