Amodimethicone emulsion for Shampoo instead of PQ10

AbdullahAbdullah Member
edited April 2021 in Formulating
I currently make Shampoo with SLES/CAPB as surfactant and %0.3 polyquaternium 10 as conditioning Agent. Making process is pretty easy and don't need anything special to care about.
I want to replace polyquaternium 10 with an Amodimethicone emulsion soon. In another discussion @chemicalmatt has said adding Amodimethicone to shampoo needs a separate discussion and Long answer or even a seminar.

So
1. what is difference for adding Amodimethicone emulsion than adding PQ10 in Shampoo? 

2. Does it help with wet/dry combing and hair feel if used at %0.3 active Amodimethicone better or same as %0.3 PQ10?

3. Does it need any special process?

4. Is these anything else i should know?

because MOQ is 50kgs, imported from another country, that would be a big loss if it didn't go well. 

Comments

  • The problem is, it’s almost impossible to tell. Polyquaternium 10 is like carbomer or xanthan gum: comes with different properties but INCI is the same. As per my anecdotal experience polyquat-10 tends to impact viscosity less.
  • @ngarayeva001 it is PQ10 jr400. It impacts viscosity very less
  • Amodimethicone might impact viscosity. I think sticking to pq10 is safer.
  • @ngarayeva001 would it increase the viscosity or decrease it? 

    I want to use it for it's conditioning effect. 
  • Hi @Abdullah, PQ-10 does have great conditioning qualities but polyquats also aid deposition of actives onto the hair and are therefore often used in conjunction with silicones. If you do a straight swap and there are no other deposition agents in the formula (such as polquats or guars) the amodimethicone may not deposit on the hair very effectively. I would recommend using both if you can. Also, you will want to use the amodimethicone emulsion at a minimum active level of 0.5% in the shampoo to see the conditioning effects.

    The amodimethicone emulsion will have very little effect on viscosity in terms of thickening, but some microemulsions (used in clear shampoo formulations) will reduce viscosity over time and your shampoo formulation may require a  non-ionic thickener to reduce this interaction. If you are creating an opaque formulation, I'd recommend using a macroemulsion instead to have the smallest impact on viscosity. You will, however, need to make sure your thickener has suspending ability as once all those tiny emulsified particles are distributed in your finished formulation, the thickener in the raw material won't be able to maintain its stability in the overall formulation.

    About MOQ - you should be able to ask for a lab sample (might be 100-500g) to test out in your formulation on a smaller lab scale before committing to the 50kg purchase.
  • @klangridge hi 
    Thanks for sharing your opinions.

    My Shampoo is opaque. What is the difference between macroemulsion and microemulsions specially for Amodimethicone emulsion?

    Currently i am using NACL to thicken the system. Is that enough for suspension of Amodimethicone in shampoo?

    If not, would HPMC, cationic guar or PQ10 stabilize the suspension?


  • @Abdullah, polyquatermium 10 can increase viscosity slightly. But it depends on what else is in the formula
  • @klangridge, polyquaternium 10 can be very different. some are more cationic, some are less. 
  • @ngarayeva001 thanks a lot
  • Abdullah said:
    @klangridge hi 
    Thanks for sharing your opinions.

    My Shampoo is opaque. What is the difference between macroemulsion and microemulsions specially for Amodimethicone emulsion?

    Currently i am using NACL to thicken the system. Is that enough for suspension of Amodimethicone in shampoo?

    If not, would HPMC, cationic guar or PQ10 stabilize the suspension?


    Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. You have probably moved on with this project now!

    A macroemulsion has a larger particle size and higher active level of silicone, so appears as a white emulsion. If your shampoo is already opaque, I would recommend using a macroemulsion.
    A microemulsion has a lower level of active and a lower particle size, but with the benefit of being clear. 

    Try the system thickened with NaCl and using a macroemulsion and see if it works for you.

    As in my previous post, I would recommend using the PQ-10 and amodimethicone emulsion together for better deposition and therefore better conditioning from the amodimethicone on the hair, otherwise most of the silicone you include will wash away in the foam.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    edited May 2021
    @klangridge thanks 
    Hope you are fine.

    I have purchased Amodimethicone emulsion and will receive it soon. 

    From PQ10 jr400 and guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, which one helps the deposition of Amodimethicone better? 
    And at how much use level minimum? 
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