Which poly quat is best for curly hair shampoo

Hello,
I'm trying I'm formulate a sulphate free shampoo

With AOS 40, Coco betaine, poly quat, liquid thickner, presevative

I want to know.

Which poly quat is best for shampoo? Poly quat 7 0r poly quat 10

I want to formulate a shampoo for curly hair and I am not sure which is best? Has anyone used both in their formulas and what were the results?

I am going to use a liquid thickner to thicken the product so I'm not keen on the poly quat having that benefit.


Comments

  • Hello
    In my experience , quat 10 is better and softener than quat 7 for curly hair. you can use it in 2% .
  • Polyquaternium 10 is like ‘carbomer’ or xanthan gum. There’s a huge variety of them and they can be drastically different.
  • Hello
    In my experience , quat 10 is better and softener than quat 7 for curly hair. you can use it in 2% .
    Thanks. But I have read using more than 0.5% poly quat 10 can give the product an unwanted feel? Have you used the 2% before or at what % have you used it
  • @Rookayerh123 PQ-10 can buil-up heavily on hair, and if the formula is sulfate-free, it'd be harder to remove most of the polymero on each wash. I've never tried more than 0.5% (providing it's a 100% polyquat) precisely for this build-up. Some companies mix low amounts of both PQ-10 and PQ-7 (PQ-7 not only builds-up less, but since it's a copolymer, it has more "mobility" than polysaccaride based cationics like PQ-10 and Guar HPTC, which translates in more lubrication especially during the wet stage).   
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    Polyquaternium-10 low MW (JR400 clones like Conditioner P10 from 3V Sigma) work best for thick, curly hair, hands down, especially when used with silicones (from sand - natural, I swear), and I'll agree with ketchito, less than 1.00% w/w is plenty, no need to use more, and it will build up too. 
  • ketchito said:
    @Rookayerh123 PQ-10 can buil-up heavily on hair, and if the formula is sulfate-free, it'd be harder to remove most of the polymero on each wash. I've never tried more than 0.5% (providing it's a 100% polyquat) precisely for this build-up. Some companies mix low amounts of both PQ-10 and PQ-7 (PQ-7 not only builds-up less, but since it's a copolymer, it has more "mobility" than polysaccaride based cationics like PQ-10 and Guar HPTC, which translates in more lubrication especially during the wet stage).   
    Thank you. I plan to use poly quat 10 at 0.4%.

    If I were to use poly quat 7, what % would you recommend. 
  • Polyquaternium-10 low MW (JR400 clones like Conditioner P10 from 3V Sigma) work best for thick, curly hair, hands down, especially when used with silicones (from sand - natural, I swear), and I'll agree with ketchito, less than 1.00% w/w is plenty, no need to use more, and it will build up too. 
    Thank you.

    What silicones?
     Dimethicone, cyclomethicone?
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    Dimethicone only, and use higher MW such as 1000 CST, works best with low MW PQ10.
  • ketchito said:
    @Rookayerh123 PQ-10 can buil-up heavily on hair, and if the formula is sulfate-free, it'd be harder to remove most of the polymero on each wash. I've never tried more than 0.5% (providing it's a 100% polyquat) precisely for this build-up. Some companies mix low amounts of both PQ-10 and PQ-7 (PQ-7 not only builds-up less, but since it's a copolymer, it has more "mobility" than polysaccaride based cationics like PQ-10 and Guar HPTC, which translates in more lubrication especially during the wet stage).   
    Thank you. I plan to use poly quat 10 at 0.4%.

    If I were to use poly quat 7, what % would you recommend. 
    You could use the 0.4% of PQ-10 alone, or split in half between PQ-10 and PQ-7 (remember that PQ-7 comes usually as a 10% slution, so to have 0.2%, you'd need to use 2% of the commercial material).  
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