Opinion: What is the best o/w emulsifer?

emma1985emma1985 Member
edited November 2020 in Formulating
Obviously the answer will differ based on the product, and I'm pretty sure I will see Glyceryl Stearate and PEG-100 Stearate amongst the answers, but if you could only formulate with a single o/w emulsifer, which one would you pick? Biggest considerations will likely be stability and elegance. Thank you. 

Comments

  • I think depends on the requirements, if there's no or minimal electrolytes, body vs non-bodying, perhaps: 
    • 165 type (Glyceryl Stearate and PEG-100 Stearate) for non bodying
    • Emulium Delta MB (Cetyl Alcohol (and) Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-75 Stearate (and) Ceteth-20 (and) Steareth-20) for bodying, rich velvet
    • Sepinov EMT 10 for polymeric, silky
  • 165 - It's cheap.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Magnesium stearate: Because that's needed to make the pills I'm going to need should I ever get into a position where I really have to choose just one emulsifier for all my creations. :smiley:
  • I am with @Pharma on this, I would clearly need antidepressants if I had to use just one emulsifier. 
    Well since my beloved GMS+PEG-100 Stearate had been mentioned already, ceteareth-20 isn’t bad if paired with GMS. Weirdly enough I want to mention  TEA stearate because it can emulsify a lot of oil (provided it’s the only emulsifier available). From polymeric, although aristoflex avc is my favorite when it comes to rheology, if I only could keep one then Sepinov EMT 10. And for w/si Dow Corning’s formulation aid 5225. But I respond to this the same way I would respond about food, if I could only keep one type of food I wouldn’t choose my favorite (but junk) but something that is sustainable in a long run.
  • I am with @Pharma on this, I would clearly need antidepressants if I had to use just one emulsifier. 
    Well since my beloved GMS+PEG-100 Stearate had been mentioned already, ceteareth-20 isn’t bad if paired with GMS. Weirdly enough I want to mention  TEA stearate because it can emulsify a lot of oil (provided it’s the only emulsifier available). From polymeric, although aristoflex avc is my favorite when it comes to rheology, if I only could keep one then Sepinov EMT 10. And for w/si Dow Corning’s formulation aid 5225. But I respond to this the same way I would respond about food, if I could only keep one type of food I wouldn’t choose my favorite (but junk) but something that is sustainable in a long run.
    Slightly off topic.... Do you ever mix Sepinov EMT 10 with either Aristoflex AVC or Zen?  When reading on the mfg site, they suggested blending EMT 10 with other polymerics to create different sensory experiences.  They did not say which was good...and what was meant by 'different'.  I am discussing this ONLY in the aspect of rheology, and not holding a product together.
  • When mixing Sepinov with other polymerics Sepinov seem to not standout in terms of texture since it looks to me that it adopts the firmness from Aristoflex and jiggly look from Sepimax. Skin feel wise, you could still feel the Sepinov, if i didn't observe wrongly. 
  • jemolian said:
    When mixing Sepinov with other polymerics Sepinov seem to not standout in terms of texture since it looks to me that it adopts the firmness from Aristoflex and jiggly look from Sepimax. Skin feel wise, you could still feel the Sepinov, if i didn't observe wrongly. 
    So what are you saying....gives the best feel?  EMT 10....a combination...or Aristoflex AVC?
    I had thought I liked the Aristoflex the best.  I am having a tiny issue with the feel created by adding Eumulgin...(see my latest post).
  • jemolian said:
    I think depends on the requirements, if there's no or minimal electrolytes, body vs non-bodying, perhaps: 
    • 165 type (Glyceryl Stearate and PEG-100 Stearate) for non bodying
    • Emulium Delta MB (Cetyl Alcohol (and) Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-75 Stearate (and) Ceteth-20 (and) Steareth-20) for bodying, rich velvet
    • Sepinov EMT 10 for polymeric, silky
    Are you aware of any US based re-packers that are selling Emulium Delta MB?
  • jemolianjemolian Member
    edited November 2020
    @Graillotion
    So what are you saying....gives the best feel?  EMT 10....a combination...or Aristoflex AVC?
    I had thought I liked the Aristoflex the best.  I am having a tiny issue with the feel created by adding Eumulgin...(see my latest post).
    I've not tried anionic emulsifiers yet so i'm not too certain about them at the moment. I think for the skin feel wise, i'm trying to figure out from the cost wise point of view. I'm fine with mixing the following: 
    • Sepinov + Ultrez (1:1)
    • Sepinov + Aristoflex (1:1)
    • Aristoflex + (Hydrolyzed) Sclerotium Gum (0.2% or less)
    Using any of these combinations should be able to produce a slightly silky skin feel. I've not tried the 3rd combo at the moment but based on observation on the Sclerotium Gum, it would also be able to provide such as skin feel. 
    Are you aware of any US based re-packers that are selling Emulium Delta MB?

    Bought mine from China as per usual, that reseller also has other emulsifiers from Gattefosse. 

    Perhaps an alternative would be Lipomulse Luxe (Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-40 Stearate (and) Ceteareth-20)
  • As I only formulate for my personal use, I would pick either Sepinov EMT 10 or Lecigel. If I am making a cream, I use emulsifier at 2% and I like Lecigel's texture much better but the emulsion is yellowish. Most times though I make a rather thin lotion so I use emulsifier at 1% or less. With lotion it doesn't really matter which one I use, it all feels great to me. I'm sure I would also like Sepimax Zen and Aristoflex, if they were available from my local suppliers.
  • Aristoflex is my favorite polymeric so far.. I've tried Sepimax Zen (too wiggly) and Sepinov.

    As for the rest ... I think I will always have a soft spot for BTMS50. I love the powdery finish and water resistance. I love it especially for hair and beard products. Only drawback is lack of compatibility with some ingredients. 

    Right now amongst nonionic emulsifers, I'm really liking Cetearyl Alcohol and Ceteareth 20. Not as bodying as some of the others, so it's versatile like Glyceryl Stearate and PEG 100 Stearate, but it seems to soap significantly less. It also seems to create particularly white emulsions. I can use it with polymerics and achieve a really fluffy consistency that I love.

    Thank you everyone for participating.
  • @Graillotion, I sometimes mix sepinov and sepimax zen. As @emma1985 said sepimaz zen is wiggly, but it has a good slip (I would say even too much). So mixing them together can give nice sensorial results (obviously it’s subjective). Aristoflex AvC goes well with sodium carbomer (not my discovery, noticed in many Chanel and some No7 products). I also like combination of Pemulen Ez4U (sold by Trulux and has very strong stabilising properties) and ultrez 30. Don’t use it too often because I prefer preneutralised polymers for some reason.
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