homogenizer or stirrer for small business starting out?
domicanica
Member
i've done some research (read the "setting up a cosmetic formulating lab" series and discussions on here, looked at blogs etc) but i'm still a bit lost as it relates to equipment, specifically stirrers/homogenizers. to start i'll be making body wash and body lotion and i'm not sure if i need an overhead stirrer, homogenizer or both. the way i understand it, most overhead stirrers have adjustable speeds and can do high shear AND low shear mixing but a homogenizer can only do high shear mixing so i'm better off with the stirrer, is this correct?
as i start experimenting i'll probably be working in small batches of maybe 200mL the most, until i'm satisfied with my base formula. should i use an immersion blender until i'm ready to scale up?
i've seen some overhead stirrers i think i like but i'm not sure what i'm supposed to be looking for in the first place, so if anyone has any advice, opinions or product recommendations they'd like to share i would love to hear them. i live in the caribbean so the easiest way for me to get things here is to purchase from US sites/companies and use a freight forwarder. paying freight and taxes can be expensive therefore my budget right now is $250. i do have amazon prime so recommendations from amazon are very welcome. thank you.
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https://www.katom.com/048-MX07015.html
The beauty of this one...is that it has the biggest range of speeds...infinite adjustment from 0 rpm to 13,000 rpm.....so it can both emulsify and stir, unlike the cheapies on Amazon....which the lowest speed is well beyond the realm of stirring.
Very heavy duty and high quality.
Regarding which is more important... emulsifier vs stirrer....I think this question can only be answered based on which emulsifiers you intend on using!
Note...I have the above machine...and could not be more tickled with it....after burning through 3 of the Amazon types...hehehe.
a stick blender is cheaper might be a good starter and then get a stirrer when you have more experience.
when i make test batch at home 100-200 i do stick blender and cool down by hand, 300-1000 i do overhead stirrer. if the formulae is too complicated or need a homogenizer i hand it over to professional formulator.
emulsifier vs stirrer depends on which emulsifier i want to use and thats because some ingredients just don't stand up to high shear mixing which is what the emulsifier would do right?
if you want a high quality one you have to go with one Graillotion suggest above.
The other thing....as I burned through 3 of them in about 9 months....they actually ended up being no cheaper....than one good one.
You can not measure cost...when you need to slowly stir air out of your emulsion towards the end.
It was completely unnecessary! Could not tell any difference in performance with the attachments that came with it (4). ** Note ** so far I only used it in small 240 gm batches, my opinion may change as I ramp up into 4L batches.
However...as I switch to a new project, using lamellar emulsifiers, I think it will come in handy....where I can easily switch attachments after making the initial emulsion, and then switch to the other attachment during cool down and stirring.
Note....this is a very heavy...well built machine. (Made in France) So it will not be a light weight made in China gadget you may have seen in stores. Being that it is therefore a little top heavy...always make sure to be careful...if you are leaving it standing up in a small sample beaker. (Lost more than one batch...to an unfortunate tip over.)
When I make 165 based emulsions...I just use the blender attachment. When I am making a lamellar emulsion, I have always used the emulsifier, since I am using it for a short amount of time, then switching to stirring.
Those that have tried my lamellar emulsions have raved about them. But as mentioned at the beginning, I do not know, had I used the other attachment, maybe they would have been just as good?
So I have exclusively used the emulsifier for my new lamellar projects.
Also, in your view, what do you think the minimum quantity is that you can use this on? I think someone above claimed 100ml? Thank you.
But I use a special beaker...that keeps the entire head submerged...see attached. (I use the tall skinny 250ml version)
https://www.amazon.com/Beaker-Borosilicate-Single-Karter-Scientific/dp/B006VYY09Q/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=250ml+narrow+beaker&sr=8-7
Sorry...I meant, I use the high dollar homogenizing tip....the one that cost more than the machine.
And FYI: Most stick blender heads will not fit down into that beaker...as it is narrow....part of why I use the roto stator emulsifying head.
In terms of aeration, do you find you need to stir air out of your batches after you've used the homogenizing tip? Or not necessary?
I'm trying to decide between this, the Ocis 2.0, or maybe a used Turrax from eBay. Hmmmm.
Thanks again.
Arlacel 165 could form lamellar emulsions!
Let me first say....the equipment seen in your video...is EXACTLY what I use (Dynamic version....same company). I use Montanov 202 as a primary emulsifier, and also include a polymeric and some carbomer. So my emulsions thicken instantly when the phases are combined.
So no...I do not NEED to stir air out....but I do stir (with a spatula) at least 10 times t/o cool down. The tall narrow beaker....allows me the keep the head submerged...so I suspect very little air is introduced.
Ok....I think this lady...has never really worked with her machine.
So I always run it at 6!!!! But NEVER start it at 6....the beaker would be empty!
I think I’m now deciding between this (Dynamic/Misceo) or a Bamix with whisk attachment. Bamix would be about half the price, but downsides are (1) only two speeds and (2) tip/bell is much wider. Hmmm.
They sell the attachments separately. I guess I could use this in a Dremel? Does the shape of the tip look like it would blend/homogenize well?
I'm actually using FSH-2A. So I can share some thoughts.
It is not bad. When I bought it, I wasn't really happy. I thought, it's introducing way too much air into my product. However, I learnt how to work with it. I don't even use it on the highest speeed [It also gets warm very fast if used at max speed, so I'm scared to not burn it
The heads are short tho. So I've head some problem, where tall profile beaker wasn't the best for it. And the small head is not useful for me at all. I think I've used it twice and put it aside.
Let me know if you would have any questions about that.
Interesting - If it doesn't work at least I can use it to blend my soup.
Anyone heard about the price? If it will cost me up to $1,000-$1,500 , I would rather not.
very interesting - affordable, if it doesn't work at least I will have one more drill or maybe use it to blend my soup, but well the total length is 90 mm might not reach the pot's bottom.
I got the Dynamic and did a first test using this blade:
Although I had the head submerged, it seems like it still incorporates a bit of air. My results were very similar to what that lady above on YouTube got -- except she was using the Blender Tool homogenizer -- with a thick, marshmallow/meringue-type texture. I want to get the Blender Tool, largely because I could use it with smaller samples, but not if it too adds in air.
I might also try this blade:
Did you find the Blender Tool incorporates less air than either of these two blades? Also, are you using your device slanted (at an angle)?
Thank you.
https://www.robertdyas.co.uk/bosch-msm2623ggb-clevermixx-dip-&-dressing-600w-hand-blender-white-&-green?source=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs4PNwuOB7QIVwdPtCh01LAuuEAQYBiABEgLML_D_BwE
I have it and it works an absolute charm for me. Instant (seemingly) emulsification, it's a beast and introduces 0 air. I will say, you have to turn the knob about halfway for it to get going. I don't know why but someone in my Facebook group said the same.
You CANNOT stir with it. It's far too powerful. I use it first to emulsify then switch to my overhead with propeller attachment.
It homogenizes extremely well while the product is warm/hot and liquid, the efficacy decreases as the product gains viscosity (I'm sure you know this.)
Make sure you clean the attachments really well before using it. I ended up with some metal bits my first time using it.
You will never need to use it at the highest speed. Not even close.
i said instant emulsification because I feel like I get a much faster blend using the homogenizer than I do my immersion blender and my overhead stirrer on high speed. Perhaps more importantly, with my immersion blender, when I take breaks I often get separation, but no separation during breaks with the homogenizer. When I use the immersion blender I invariably end up with air bubbles. No air bubbles that I can see with the homogenizer:
2) I think I got it here:
Bakery Supplies & Restaurant Supplies, Pastry tools, bakery & restaurant equipment (bakedeco.com)
but I think this was an option as well:
Restaurant Supplies, Equipment & Design - Bargreen Ellingson
I think neither of them kept it in stock....they just would facilitate an order from the warehouse in Canada. The part number is AC560
3) Dynamic's sister company...Misceo...offers a stand designed for it...(I do not have it)... But I think it is something you could craft quite easily.
Just remember....this is a big heavy machine.... NOTHING like what you get from Amazon. Gets very warm after two minutes of constant use.