Tretinoin stability issue ? need help

NixeusNixeus Member
edited September 16 in Formulating

Hello People,

 

To introduce me quickly, i’m not chemist but only a engineer ( not in chemistery field).


I’m interresting a lot about anti aging and biochemistery since 2012.


I’m doing myself some products for haircaire ( because i have a male pattern baldness) and anti wrinkles cream face.

All these are only for personal/family use.

 

I’m reaching you today because i have some doubts about tretinoin stability.

 

I will explain you why :

 

I use a « standard night cream » then i put in it some Coenzyme Q 10 powder and 0,025% raw tretinoin. Tretinoin is a very good anti wrinkles agent ( boost collagen, help to cell turnover), that’s why i put it in my cream.

 

Problem is simple, tretinoin, when used at 0,025% do some flakes/Peeling on the face , it’s a standard reaction of tretinoine because it enhance cell turnover. If i use 0,025% tretinoine from my pharmacia, i get flakes/peeling on my face…

 

If i use my cream, with the same % of tretinoin ( yes, my maths are ok 😊 ) : No flakes, no peeling.

 

My question is to know why i get no peeling/flakes with my custom cream :

 

> Tretinoin react with another component in this cream cream which destruct my tretinoin ?

>  Tretinoin is OK but some component in the cream prevent the peeling/flakes ?

>  Other ?

 

I really would like to know the truth about in order to be able to get my tretinoin working in this custom cream face. Any ideas ? Any preservative to add ?

Here is the night cream i use, here is the component : Aqua, Glycerin, Cetearyl Isononanoate, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Octyldodecanol, Potassium Cetyl Phosphate, Hydrogenated Palm Glycerides, Panthenol, Butyrospermum Parkii Butter, Cetearyl Alcohol, Glyceryl Stearate, Vitis Vinifera Seed Oil, Tocopheryl Acetate, Sodium Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, Cyclomethicone, Dimethiconol, Trisodium EDTA, 1, 2-Hexanediol, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Citronellol, Benzyl Alcohol, BHT, Parfum.

Thanks a lot :)

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Comments

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Most likely reason why: the tretinoin you have has already degraded before you actually could mix it with your cream.
    Besides, there is only a small amount of BHT in that cream which is unlikely to suffice to prevent further/full degradation within hours to days in case there still was some activity left.
  • Hi, and thanks for the answer.
    My tretinoin is a recent batch from a lab and i store it in the freezer, so i "think" this tretinoin is fine.

    So if i'm sure my tretinoine is fine, i should try to add some BHT ? Any idea bout the amount to add ? 0.5% ? More ? Less ? I never used this in the past.
  • Tretinoine cream isn't easy to make and mostly would comes in aluminium tube to prevent degradation. 
    easy way you may use standard tretioine cream and apply night cream after to prevent dryness and use sunscreen.
  • Hi, why it isn't easy to make ? And why aluminium ? Isn't plastic jar /glass jar not enough ? (is stored in a dark place) ?

    Yeah, using standard tretinoin cream is possible but since i can get it raw tretinoin, it's for me a good idea to mix it in my night cream.

    That's why i'm looking for way to stabilize it.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Fresh and freezer sound promising. Best to aliquot it ASAP upon receipt. Say you were to get 10 g, make 9 x 1 g mini-batches you freeze and 1 you further split into ready to use amounts so you'll have to freeze-thaw max two times.
    Light, apart from oxygen, is your worst enemy and that's why completely light-tight alu tubes are a good choice. Also working quickly and under dimmed light (no sunlight at all) is advisable.
    I once did test tretinoin with FT-IR and you can literally watch it degrade. Not like *ZAPP* and gone, but still a scary degradation speed. If you can afford to, store the cream in the fridge.
    There's a bunch of discussions here, if I'm not mistaken, dealing with how to stabilise a tretinoin cream.
    BHT alone won't suffice, use a combo of antioxidants and radical and oxygen scavengers with different modes of action.

    Alternatively, the observed absence of 'effects' might be a lack of adverse side-effects because your base is better made than the store bought product :smiley: ?
  • tretinoin cream base is usually thin with minimal occlusion which is good for acne treatment.

    In my humble opinion.
    tretinoin cream should only be a prescription drug for ance vulgaris not product for cosmetic use. It is used as an adjunctive treatment in fine wrinkled patients under supervision of medical professionals. I myself am not very keen on using it for cosmetics propose it posts too many risks of side-effects and prolonged usage safety is still the issue. Many Derms prescibe it doesn't mean you should DIY it. But in the end it's your choice.

    I am sure @Pharma 's knowledge in this area is far better than mine. 

    I found this short pdf
    https://providers.amerigroup.com/AGP Documents/PHARM_ALL_CosmeticAnti-Aging.pdf

    have you considered using retinol or retinaldehyde?

    this study is also interesting too.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841824/

  • Pharma said:
    Fresh and freezer sound promising. Best to aliquot it ASAP upon receipt. Say you were to get 10 g, make 9 x 1 g mini-batches you freeze and 1 you further split into ready to use amounts so you'll have to freeze-thaw max two times.
    Light, apart from oxygen, is your worst enemy and that's why completely light-tight alu tubes are a good choice. Also working quickly and under dimmed light (no sunlight at all) is advisable.
    I once did test tretinoin with FT-IR and you can literally watch it degrade. Not like *ZAPP* and gone, but still a scary degradation speed. If you can afford to, store the cream in the fridge.
    There's a bunch of discussions here, if I'm not mistaken, dealing with how to stabilise a tretinoin cream.
    BHT alone won't suffice, use a combo of antioxidants and radical and oxygen scavengers with different modes of action.

    Alternatively, the observed absence of 'effects' might be a lack of adverse side-effects because your base is better made than the store bought product :smiley: ?
    Thanks a lot for your input.

    I think my tret is broken because i remember, when i received it, if i smelled it, it stinged the nose due to the acidity of the tretinoin. If now i smell it....it doesn't sting the nose.

    I don't really understand because i stored in the freezer, no light :(

  • Pattsi said:
    tretinoin cream base is usually thin with minimal occlusion which is good for acne treatment.

    In my humble opinion.
    tretinoin cream should only be a prescription drug for ance vulgaris not product for cosmetic use. It is used as an adjunctive treatment in fine wrinkled patients under supervision of medical professionals. I myself am not very keen on using it for cosmetics propose it posts too many risks of side-effects and prolonged usage safety is still the issue. Many Derms prescibe it doesn't mean you should DIY it. But in the end it's your choice.

    I am sure @Pharma 's knowledge in this area is far better than mine. 

    I found this short pdf
    https://providers.amerigroup.com/AGP Documents/PHARM_ALL_CosmeticAnti-Aging.pdf

    have you considered using retinol or retinaldehyde?

    this study is also interesting too.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841824/

    Hi,

    I don't know the stability of retinaldehyde. I have to look for. If it's stable i could use instead of tretinoin since retinaldehyde will convert in retinaldehyde.

    Any idea about stability ?
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Not stable, probably even less than retinoic acid and it's less active. Retinol would be somewhat more stable but it's also a lot less active too.
  • NixeusNixeus Member
    edited September 14
    :( :( sad
    I have to find way to stabilize it in my freezer first :(
    In addition to adding tretinoin to cream i add in Minoxidil too since it increase minoxidil activity.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    I would prepare minoxidil separately and also apply it separately. A synergism won't be lost if you're applying both on a daily bases ;) .
  • yeah but it's more convenient to having tret in the minox solution. btw some supplier sold in the past tretinoin in minoxidil...i wonder if they used BHT in it  or other preservative..Which are the amount of BHT to use approximatively ?
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