Non comedogenic ingredients for TEWL?

ETcellphoneETcellphone Member
edited August 6 in Formulating
Hello guys, 
I am looking for an ingredient(s) that I can use in a hydrating oil free facial serum that is very beneficial in TEWL prevention and moisturization. However, it must be safe for acneic skin. I know each persons skin is different, but I figure there’s a few safe bets out there will a good change it would be ok to use. 
My skin type is very acne prone, however it is also sensitive and usually dehydrated and tight feeling. With this skin type, the common ingredients that would help for moisture, like oils, fatty acids, waxes, silicones and mineral oils end up causing me grief in the shape of pimples, blocked pores and irritation. 
This is why finding a moisturizing ingredient for me is a huge challenge and I realIze a tall order. 
 I have recently formulated my own facial serum, which has done a fairy good job so far. However, I really am keen to find an ingredient that will work well for barrier repair and TEWL minimization. 

My formula: 

propylene glycol- 3%
Optiphen - .5%
Distilled water - 65.8%
Sodium carbomer- .2%
Urea- 7%
Honeyquat - 5%
hydrolyzed oats- 5%
Licorice root extract- 5%
Niacinimide- 3%
Allantoin- .5%
Natrasmooth (lotioncrafter. Made of: Water, Tremella Fuciformis Sporocarp Extract, Betain, Glycerin) - 5%
———
any suggestions or critiques I would be very open to hear. I am new to formulations so I am sure I am missing a few critical ingredients or proportions are not exactly right ... 
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Comments

  • I’d also like to mention that I am new to this community and must say that I am very humbled and in awe of the people here, let alone able to interact with you. Your skill set, your knowledge and your artistry in making cosmetics is astounding. I really mean it :) 
  • zeteinzetein Member
    Xylitol is quite good. It's a sufficient humectant and easy to buy, though could be tacky at high level same as glycerin...

    Evaluation of xylitol as an agent that controls the growth of skin microbes: Staphylococcus aureusStaphylococcus epidermidis, and Cutibacterium acnes

    http://www.kjom.org/journal/view.html?uid=185&pn=lastest&vmd=Full#:~:text=Xylitol is a natural sugar alcohol that is,the presence or absence of 1% (w/v) and

  • Dr_SaraDr_Sara Member
    back to basics... maybe lanolin
  • czkldczkld Member
    Maybe not the most elegant, but petrolatum is non-comedogenic, and its the gold standard for TEWL reduction. Although with some work you can probably make it feel nice ^^
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    I love the suggestions by @Dr_Sara and @czkld Old School ingredients, you cannot go wrong. @ETcellphone understand that most really comedogenic ingredients are triglyceride oils and their derivatives, such sweet almond oil, grapeseed oil, decyl oleate, isopropyl palmitate. Avoid these and you should be good to go. 

  • zetein said:
    Xylitol is quite good. It's a sufficient humectant and easy to buy, though could be tacky at high level same as glycerin...

    Evaluation of xylitol as an agent that controls the growth of skin microbes: Staphylococcus aureusStaphylococcus epidermidis, and Cutibacterium acnes

    http://www.kjom.org/journal/view.html?uid=185&pn=lastest&vmd=Full#:~:text=Xylitol is a natural sugar alcohol that is,the presence or absence of 1% (w/v) and

    Thank you for your reply. Do you know a good place to purchase it? I had been having a discussion with another member on finding Aquaxyl, which contains xylitol as 1 of its 3 components, and expressed it was very difficult for me to get. I am in the United States
  • zacchaeus said:
    Thanks. I am learning more and more about betaine, I didn't realize it was so popular. Do you find betaine to provide superior moisture over, say, glycerin? I'm thinking about if I had to make a serum with only 3 humectants and water, do you think betaine would be good enough to be chosen for 1 of those 3?
  • Dr_Sara said:
    back to basics... maybe lanolin
    unfortunately lanolin breaks me out :(
  • czkld said:
    Maybe not the most elegant, but petrolatum is non-comedogenic, and its the gold standard for TEWL reduction. Although with some work you can probably make it feel nice ^^
    You don't know how much I WISH I could use petrolatum on my face. Yes it is considered non comedogenic, and cannot go into the pores, however with my skin, it does cause acne. Which I don't understand. I wonder if there is a difference in using it applied to the skin from the jar vs. mineral oil in a small percent added to a serum? 
  • I love the suggestions by @Dr_Sara and @czkld Old School ingredients, you cannot go wrong. @ETcellphone understand that most really comedogenic ingredients are triglyceride oils and their derivatives, such sweet almond oil, grapeseed oil, decyl oleate, isopropyl palmitate. Avoid these and you should be good to go. 

    Thank you for your reply and suggestions. I can't use lanolin on my face because it does cause acne for me, as well as the petrolatum, unfortunately. If my skin could tolerate it, I would absolutely be using a cream that has those 2 ingredients, because they are amazing at retaining moisture. For me, though, I end up with irritation and acne. 
  • That is too bad.🙁 Everyone reacts differently to ingredients. My daughter does very well with a cream containing lanolin and mineral oil.

    Have you tried a moisture cream with honey and propolis? Honey (mel) is emollient, and healing. Propolis (propolis cera) decreases sebum production. 🐝

    Apparently Jojoba oil (Simmondsia chinensis seed oil) is the plant oil that is most similar to human sebum. Can you tolerate jojoba? 
  • Urea will break that sodium carbomer. You need to find another gel maker. I think xanthan is the only thing that might work here (still not sure with 6%).
    I also think you have too much of everything in that formula. I would get rid of proteins and quats. 
  • Dr_Sara said:
    That is too bad.🙁 Everyone reacts differently to ingredients. My daughter does very well with a cream containing lanolin and mineral oil.

    Have you tried a moisture cream with honey and propolis? Honey (mel) is emollient, and healing. Propolis (propolis cera) decreases sebum production. 🐝

    Apparently Jojoba oil (Simmondsia chinensis seed oil) is the plant oil that is most similar to human sebum. Can you tolerate jojoba? 
    I'm jealous of your daughter! So lucky. Kinda makes you nostalgic for the 1940s when they used all of those cold creams and heavier products.


    I have tried honey on my face, it seemed to cause slight irritation but not necessarily acne. Maybe if I try it at a smaller percent? This was years ago. I have tried royal jelly a few years back as well with similar experience. I'm telling you my skin is a total diva lol. 

    You're right about the jojoba oil, I have heard the same thing. The oil broke me out, but I have recently been reminded of jojoba esters... I wonder if that would be any different? 


  • Urea will break that sodium carbomer. You need to find another gel maker. I think xanthan is the only thing that might work here (still not sure with 6%).
    I also think you have too much of everything in that formula. I would get rid of proteins and quats. 
    Yes I was informed by another member about the sodium carbomer too. How do you know when the product breaks? my serum seems to still be a homogenous mixture... although It is in an amber glass, I can't be entirely certain. 

    I have food grade xantham gum, do you think that will work? 
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Do you know a good place to purchase it?
    Mine is food grade from the local health food shop ;) . Cheaper versions are available in Europe from BulkPowders.com and MyProtein.com, for US customers, PulkSupplements.com would be a place to look for it. I have the impression that, more often than not, food grade is way purer than cosmetic grade & you can use your ingredients for cosmetics and food without any worries.
  • zacchaeus said:
    Thanks. I am learning more and more about betaine, I didn't realize it was so popular. Do you find betaine to provide superior moisture over, say, glycerin? I'm thinking about if I had to make a serum with only 3 humectants and water, do you think betaine would be good enough to be chosen for 1 of those 3?
    Hi. Yes, it is better than glycerin. Plus, it isn't tacky on the skin. You can use it at its maximum dosage 5%. 
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @zacchaeus - Betaine provides superior moisture over glycerin? What has convinced you of this? Do you have a link to some study?

    In the industry, glycerin is the benchmark humectant that all others are compared to. In terms of effectiveness, I've not seen a more economical & efficient choice.

  • @Perry my apologies for wrong info. Glycerin can be partially or totally replaced by Betaine as it has the same moisturizing effect, based on the study made by DuPont. Pros of betaine is it isn't tacky/sticky.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @zacchaeus - no apology required. I was curious what convinced you. I have a certain belief about ingredients and when someone suggests something different I always like to find out how they came to these conclusions. I'm willing to update my beliefs if there is scientific evidence to do so.

    I've not seen the study by DuPont to which you are referring. 

  • I see someone mentioned Jojoba esters...have you looked at this one.  I was able to FINALLY achieve the TEWL level I wanted...without using Petro products with K-20W at 2%.  (blend with equal amounts glycerin.)

    https://www.floratech.com/Product/FK02

  • I was able to FINALLY achieve the TEWL level I wanted...without using Petro products with K-20W at 2%.  (blend with equal amounts glycerin.)

    https://www.floratech.com/Product/FK02

    And how did you determine this?
  • ggpetrov said:
    I was able to FINALLY achieve the TEWL level I wanted...without using Petro products with K-20W at 2%.  (blend with equal amounts glycerin.)

    https://www.floratech.com/Product/FK02

    And how did you determine this?
    Nothing scientific... I am just very sensitive and aware with what is happening to my skin.  I especially like to apply before bed...and evaluate my skin the following morning.  

    When I change a single ingredient....even an adjustment up or down (.5%)...I can feel it like night and day.  I don't think most people have that type of sensitivity.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    I don't know what makes its performance but my wife and I did try that lotion by @Graillotion and yes, it definitely is hydrating and caring (and I have to admit, my wife likes it even more than my own latest creation).
  • Pharma said:
    I don't know what makes its performance but my wife and I did try that lotion by @Graillotion and yes, it definitely is hydrating and caring (and I have to admit, my wife likes it even more than my own latest creation).
    Thank You Pharma.
  • Pharma said:
    Do you know a good place to purchase it?
    Mine is food grade from the local health food shop ;) . Cheaper versions are available in Europe from BulkPowders.com and MyProtein.com, for US customers, PulkSupplements.com would be a place to look for it. I have the impression that, more often than not, food grade is way purer than cosmetic grade & you can use your ingredients for cosmetics and food without any worries.
    Ok, thank you I found it on the bulksupplements site. Do you know around what percentage you can use the xylitol before it becomes too sticky? Also, if you have had any experience with Aquaxyl, would you say they are basically the same effectiveness? 
  • ETcellphoneETcellphone Member
    edited August 20
    Cool! Do you know where I can get it? I am in the US. All I can find is 

    Cocamidopropyl Betaine

  • I see someone mentioned Jojoba esters...have you looked at this one.  I was able to FINALLY achieve the TEWL level I wanted...without using Petro products with K-20W at 2%.  (blend with equal amounts glycerin.)

    https://www.floratech.com/Product/FK02

    Nice! Thank you for the link. It has helped maintain moisture to your skin? I am very acne prone to oils, so I am curious about esters, and if they were suitable for my kind of skin.  
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Cool! Do you know where I can get it? I am in the US. All I can find is 

    Cocamidopropyl Betaine

    Not the same thing... betaine has different synonyms such as trimethyl glycine or glycine betaine.
    Drawback of certain US based supplement suppliers is the lack in information on the bags. EU suppliers have a more precise labelling and you know (at least after you got the package) 'for sure' whether you got glycine (anhydride) or glycine monohydrate.
    @Perry From what I can tell, EU regulations for food are better than for cosmetics.
  • I see someone mentioned Jojoba esters...have you looked at this one.  I was able to FINALLY achieve the TEWL level I wanted...without using Petro products with K-20W at 2%.  (blend with equal amounts glycerin.)

    https://www.floratech.com/Product/FK02

    Nice! Thank you for the link. It has helped maintain moisture to your skin? I am very acne prone to oils, so I am curious about esters, and if they were suitable for my kind of skin.  
    Yes, it has done a good job at 2% inclusion rate.  Floratech will send you a sample if you ask.  And if you like it...there are several repackers selling it in the US...I think I got mine at Noble Roots...since I did not want the large quantity that Floratech had as a minimum.  Note: I also tried a couple batches at 1.5%...and the difference was pretty notable.  So went with with 2%.  I suppose as with all formulas.... it will depend a lot of what else you are working with.
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited August 20
    Betaine is super hard to find....amongst the repackers....I have ONLY found it ONE place:
    https://www.ingredientstodiefor.com/item/VegeMoist_Beet_Sugar_Extract_/894

    Would love to have an alternative source!!!

  • PattsiPattsi Member
    edited August 20
    usually  acne prone skin is oily type  so they  can tolerate  acne treatment  quit well  cos most would dry their skins out.
    but you are on the dry side which is make it harder to treat.

    ETcellphone said: pimples, blocked pores and irritation.

    the problem might be your over all routine or daily life how you treat your skin, how u eat , how u sleep etc. might start with how u clean ur skin. cleansing oil or balm might be a good chioce or double clean system might do better. you have to try what's work for you.

    Tretinoin 0.025% cream might be a good start if it drys your skin then add aloe or licorice gel. IMHO i would recommend seeking a consult from dermatologist for some period of time and when u find what is actually your problem then u can design ur own routine for urself.

     if you don't know what cause your skin to break out it will be a bit hard to start formulate your own serum. as for TEWL ingredient petrolatum is a gold standard, you can start on low like 0.1- 0.3 if it is still too much i say you can look into light weight baby cream like Ezerra or baby sebamed.

     Happy formulating :) :) :)
  • DamodeDamode Member
    Sometime, food rich in fatty acid can be a culprit, life style is a major concern in acne prone skin
  • Betaine is super hard to find....amongst the repackers....I have ONLY found it ONE place:
    https://www.ingredientstodiefor.com/item/VegeMoist_Beet_Sugar_Extract_/894

    Would love to have an alternative source!!!

    Thanks a lot for the link. It's the closest I have come to being able to have access to it. Can I ask why you would prefer to have another source? Is their shipping super expensive? 
  • Pharma said:
    Cool! Do you know where I can get it? I am in the US. All I can find is 

    Cocamidopropyl Betaine

    Not the same thing... betaine has different synonyms such as trimethyl glycine or glycine betaine.
    Drawback of certain US based supplement suppliers is the lack in information on the bags. EU suppliers have a more precise labelling and you know (at least after you got the package) 'for sure' whether you got glycine (anhydride) or glycine monohydrate.
    @Perry From what I can tell, EU regulations for food are better than for cosmetics.
    thank you for the information. Yes I am getting that impression too. 
  • Pattsi said:
    usually  acne prone skin is oily type  so they  can tolerate  acne treatment  quit well  cos most would dry their skins out.
    but you are on the dry side which is make it harder to treat.

    ETcellphone said: pimples, blocked pores and irritation.

    the problem might be your over all routine or daily life how you treat your skin, how u eat , how u sleep etc. might start with how u clean ur skin. cleansing oil or balm might be a good chioce or double clean system might do better. you have to try what's work for you.

    Tretinoin 0.025% cream might be a good start if it drys your skin then add aloe or licorice gel. IMHO i would recommend seeking a consult from dermatologist for some period of time and when u find what is actually your problem then u can design ur own routine for urself.

     if you don't know what cause your skin to break out it will be a bit hard to start formulate your own serum. as for TEWL ingredient petrolatum is a gold standard, you can start on low like 0.1- 0.3 if it is still too much i say you can look into light weight baby cream like Ezerra or baby sebamed.

     Happy formulating :) :) :)
    I tried cleansing balms in the past but they are too heavy for my skin. I need something that foams up and is oil free. I think the cleanser I am using currently is very gentle and its just the nature of my skin to get easily dried out once it is cleansed. 

    I wish I could use tretinoin! However I cannot find a sunscreen that works for me (doesn't give me acne). 

    Hmm adding in a small percentage of petroleum... I never thought of it, but MAYBE it would be ok at a super small amount. 

    Thanks for the tips :)
  • Pattsi said:
    usually  acne prone skin is oily type  so they  can tolerate  acne treatment  quit well  cos most would dry their skins out.
    but you are on the dry side which is make it harder to treat.

    ETcellphone said: pimples, blocked pores and irritation.

    the problem might be your over all routine or daily life how you treat your skin, how u eat , how u sleep etc. might start with how u clean ur skin. cleansing oil or balm might be a good chioce or double clean system might do better. you have to try what's work for you.

    Tretinoin 0.025% cream might be a good start if it drys your skin then add aloe or licorice gel. IMHO i would recommend seeking a consult from dermatologist for some period of time and when u find what is actually your problem then u can design ur own routine for urself.

     if you don't know what cause your skin to break out it will be a bit hard to start formulate your own serum. as for TEWL ingredient petrolatum is a gold standard, you can start on low like 0.1- 0.3 if it is still too much i say you can look into light weight baby cream like Ezerra or baby sebamed.

     Happy formulating :) :) :)
    I tried cleansing balms in the past but they are too heavy for my skin. I need something that foams up and is oil free. I think the cleanser I am using currently is very gentle and its just the nature of my skin to get easily dried out once it is cleansed. 

    I wish I could use tretinoin! However I cannot find a sunscreen that works for me (doesn't give me acne). 

    Hmm adding in a small percentage of petroleum... I never thought of it, but MAYBE it would be ok at a super small amount. 

    Thanks for the tips :)
    Here is an interesting ingredient that has caught my eye...and I will play with in my next facial cream formulation:

    https://lotioncrafter.com/products/biolatum?_pos=3&_sid=354257d77&_ss=r

  • I can't remember which shop i bought it from, i think FSS, but the smell made me gag a little. Not using it ever again. You can try it and see if you are fine with it though. 
  • Betaine is super hard to find....amongst the repackers....I have ONLY found it ONE place:
    https://www.ingredientstodiefor.com/item/VegeMoist_Beet_Sugar_Extract_/894

    Would love to have an alternative source!!!

    Thanks a lot for the link. It's the closest I have come to being able to have access to it. Can I ask why you would prefer to have another source? Is their shipping super expensive? 
    Well...maybe not their shipping...just their mark-up... A lot of redundant products they sell that others also sell...are much more expensive.  Considering what Betaine is...it should not be that costly of an item!  And..... shipping is pretty darn slow...I have usually forgotten I even have an order in with them....when it finally shows up. :)  I think they are very aware they have a monopoly on small pack cosmetic Betaine.
  • jemolian said:
    I can't remember which shop i bought it from, i think FSS, but the smell made me gag a little. Not using it ever again. You can try it and see if you are fine with it though. 
    Interesting...now of course....the first thing I will do when the package arrives....is take a deep whiff.  Ingredient listing did not look too stinky?

    Luckily...I have another product I already use (K-20W) that does a pretty similar job (with no odor)....but I am always seeking the next great synergy.
  • jemolian said:
    I can't remember which shop i bought it from, i think FSS, but the smell made me gag a little. Not using it ever again. You can try it and see if you are fine with it though. 
    Got mine from LotionCrafters....absolutely no negative smell...and essentially...No smell.  Neat it is very nice, will formulate with it later today.
  • That's great, i'll maybe order from Lotioncrafter next time to test it out again. The K-20W i bought from Nobleroots just arrived so i'm also eager to test it out over the weekend. Took some time since i'm not in the US. 
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited September 11
    jemolian said:
    That's great, i'll maybe order from Lotioncrafter next time to test it out again. The K-20W i bought from Nobleroots just arrived so i'm also eager to test it out over the weekend. Took some time since i'm not in the US. 
    I felt like my product really took a turn for the better....when I introduced KW20 **to it.  I use 2% (dissolved in the same amount of glycerin) for TEWL, and .5% in another product for fragrance fixation.

    BTW... LC said they make the BioLatum in house...so it will not be the same as the one from FSS.

    **  If you have not used KW20 before... you need to dissolve it in equal amounts of glycerin before adding to your water phase.
  • I'll try it at 2% with Isononyl Isononanoate, Aquaxyl and Glycerin and see how it will change the moisturization performance or skin feel. :)
  • jemolian said:
    I'll try it at 2% with Isononyl Isononanoate, Aquaxyl and Glycerin and see how it will change the moisturization performance or skin feel. :)
    Have you worked with Aquaxyl much?
    It keeps catching my eye.

    If so...where did you get if from...and what are your thoughts about it?
  • I got mine from China as per most of my common ingredients but you should be able to purchase it from the Germany side. 

    I'm mainly using it since i can't really use Niacianmide since i'm allergic to it, they have some similar benefits but so far i think performance wise it would be complimentary to Glycerin but wouldn't really out perform Glycerin in terms of giving a substantiating or lasting skin feel. 

    My base formula is mainly Isononyl Isononanoate, Aquaxyl, Glycerin, Betaine, Trehalose, Sepinov EMT 10, Septonic M3. It does it's job relatively well in keeping the skin relatively hydrated and lightly moisturized, but i doesn't hurt to add a more moisturizing ingredient. I'm try to get a flexible formula that is not tacky under higher humidity (around 70%) but still sufficient for lower humidity (45%).
  • jemolian said:
    I can't remember which shop i bought it from, i think FSS, but the smell made me gag a little. Not using it ever again. You can try it and see if you are fine with it though. 
    Got mine from LotionCrafters....absolutely no negative smell...and essentially...No smell.  Neat it is very nice, will formulate with it later today.
    Tried the BioLatum today....in a rather dry lotion...and at 1%, it took it to something I did not care for, shiny, and residual oiliness.  My skin does not soak up oil like a sponge.  
    I have been between the horns of a dilemma, I have a premium lotion that is dialed in....and I am updating my basic (lower cost ) lotion, and the only way I know how to fix it....is make it just like the premium one....hehehe..  So I guess I will just up the KW20 to get my TEWL back to where it needs to be...same as the premium product.
  • Tried the BioLatum today....in a rather dry lotion...and at 1%, it took it to something I did not care for, shiny, and residual oiliness.  My skin does not soak up oil like a sponge.  

    Yes, i guess that would be one of the pitfalls of using petrolatum like ingredients. I'm wondering if using a mattifying emulsifier like Montanov 202 would reduce the shine. So far testing with 7.5% White Petrolatum is fine but slightly too shiny. Not sure if using starches would reduce their TEWL reduction effects.  
  • Hello,
    Maybe you can use Squalane.
  • I'm still observing the performance of the K-20W over a few days.

    I added too much by accident, so it was 3.5%, for initial observation, it seems that is increases glide and also detacks the humectants significantly. Previously my pillow case would stick to my face slightly but with the K-20W, it seems totally fine. I probably can readjust the other ingredients accordingly to increase humectancy. 
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