Experience with TEGO Care PBS 6 and similar polyglyceryl esters

PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
Does anyone have experience with polyglyceryl esters such as TEGO Care PBS 6 or Dermofeel NC, PP, PS, or G10 LW?
I'm playing around with these and am interested in possible tweaks and perks. Most of all, monoesters with >5 glyceryl units such as TEGO Care PBS 6 and Dermofeel G10 LW are very low viscosity and upping it works as far as I've observed only by either adding a gelling agent (I don't appreciate their feel that much) or mixing with co-surfactants which result in liquid crystal structures aka alpha-gels defying the main 'logic' behind these emulsifiers. I wonder if there's another strategy to increase viscosity/cushioning/richness of creams made with these ingredients as main emulsifiers.
I'd also like to combine an alpha-gel builder (Dermofeel NC or PP) with co-emulsifiers and am looking for some uncommon or less obvious co-emulsifiers. I've tried hydrogenated lecithin and the usual suspects glyceryl monoesters, glyceryl stearate citrate, fatty alcohols, fatty acids (real bad soaping), and sodium stearoyl lactylate (medium soaping) with 'success' but, from an experimental point of view, these are rather boring.
Another issue is soaping... I know the usual strategies and they work but maybe there's some special trick with polyglyceryl esters and sodium stearoyl lactylate?
I like low energy processing such as cold and hot-cold processing, PIT, and D-phase emulsification. Anyone using polyglyceryl esters in such a way?
Thanks for sharing your observations and personal insights!

PS I'm formulating by preference with ingredients from renewable resources, I'm not going to use PEG-derivatives for obvious as well as sentimental reasons, and silicones are only second choice.

Comments

  • lewhitaklewhitak Member
    edited July 20
    Hello!
    I am currently trialing the Tego Care PBS 6 and utilize the hot-cold process to create emulsions. What are you specifically interested in? 

    Just a few points:
    - We use a Silverson rotor/stator mixer and have found success with hot-cold but avoiding oil pooling at the surface is important.
    - 3-4 days of settling as instructed by Evonik does help form more of a "body" to the cream, but generally I am not seeing a large increase in viscosity but more of an increase in the "slip" feeling of the cream.

    The test formula which resulted in a pleasant low-soaping thick cream is as follows:

    Water------q.s.
    Propanediol-----3.00%
    Flax Seed Oil (Unrefined)-----15.0%
    Tego Care PBS 6------2.00%
    GMS Pure-----0.75%
    Cetyl Alcohol-----0.75%
    Sepinov WEO----0.80%
    Euxyl PE 9010----1.00%

    Sorry I can't help more with your other questions, but let me know if I can do anything else.

    I actually requested this material after seeing a recommendation in a thread by @Bill_Toge. Maybe he can offer more help?
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Thanks for your input!
    The 3-4 day 'curing' is interesting. I haven't seen that mentioned, just the usual up to 2 days as with most lamellar structures. I have observed the 'ripening' of up to a week with several different trial formulations containing polyglyceryl esters and thought it weird and blamed the high amount of electrolytes/polyols/urea that I've added.
    Guess soaping in my case is, if not caused by other ingredients, by a bit too high % of Tego Care PBS 6.
    So far, Tego Care PBS 6 and Dermofeel NC strike me as quite tolerant and versatile emulsifiers which tend to give low viscosities... I'm trying to avoid polyacrylates and carbomers and that puts me in a less favourable situation regarding the envisaged higher viscosity. The worst was a combo of xanthan, guar and hyaluronic acid... like snail slime *urks*.
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    I have never been able to use these emulsifiers by themselves - no matter what the suppliers claim. However I was able to build viscosity and some elegance with the usual liquid crystal combo of cetyl alcohol/glyceryl monostearate as lewhitak has done, but required much higher amounts than that. Regardless, these fall way short of the utility afforded by the ethoxylated nonionics, but they are here to stay as EO gets phased into the corner of our tool set. 
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    I've used Tego Care PBS 6 a lot, always in combination with a low HLB emulsifier; it's a very versatile and useful tool, since the polyglyceryl-6 behenate in it acts as an anchor, and helps stabilises otherwise difficult emulsions, e.g. large amounts of acid, salt or urea
    it's functionally similar to Arlacel 165 and analogues (glyceryl stearate / PEG-100 stearate) with the bonus of not containing PEG derivatives
    for low-viscosity systems, e.g. serums, the low HLB emulsifier was polyglyceryl-4 oleate, and for creams and similar, the low HLB emulsifier was glyceryl stearate (SE or NSE depending on the application)
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    edited July 23
    Thanks for sharing @chemicalmatt and @Bill_Toge
    Polyglyceryl-4 oleate? P-3 and P-4 oleate or P-3 olivate are on my wish list :) . Definitely going to try such a combo one day. Maybe I should start with polyglyceryl-3 palmitate which I have in stock and switch from glyceryl oleate to glyceryl palmitate... I wonder how strong the impact of the palmitate v.s. oleate side chain of these will be.
    That you mention Arlacel 165 is a perfect coincidence :smiley: . Nice! @Graillotion: You reading this?
  • Pharma said:

    That you mention Arlacel 165 is a perfect coincidence :smiley: . Nice! @Graillotion: You reading this?
    Yup....I'm reading.  I also trialed PBS 6....and can't quite remember why I did not use it. :)   Would have to check my notes.

  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    @Pharma PG-3 palmitate is solid at room temperature, and PG-3/PG-4 oleate are liquids; aside from that there's no practical difference
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • chemicalmattchemicalmatt Member, Professional Chemist
    @Bill_Toge is PG-4 oleate a Stephenson (UK) item? Hard to get in the USA.
  • EVchemEVchem Member
    @chemicalmatt ; You can get PG-4 from making cosmetics, or Jeen if you want actual manufacturer. I have never had success in using it, though it was only cold-process
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