non-acrylates losing hope

tracingrobotstracingrobots Member
edited May 21 in Formulating
Is it possible to make a gel-cream (water-cream) without the use of acrylic based powders or liquids? Losing hope that it can't be done.

If anyone has any ideas please share.

Best
Todd

Comments

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Are you looking for something without any oil phase?
  • tracingrobotstracingrobots Member
    edited May 21
    @Pharma it will have 5 percent oil. thxs
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Okay, so you've got enough oils to produce an emulsion which will look like a cream (white). All you need is a thickener or gelling agent to turn that lotion into a gel-cream. There are many non-acrylate products to choose from (sure, acrylates are easier and more reliable to work with and have often a more pleasing skin feel). Because you're going to need higher %, blends might be favourable in terms of how they feel when applied.
    Second approach would be a w/o HIPE. You'd be a tad higher than 5% counting oil+emulsifiers...
  • EVchemEVchem Member
    Natural gums will be less helpful in stabilizing an emulsion for the most part, but if you go for a high enough viscosity  it might not matter. Won't feel like a synthetic thickener though. 
    You could incorporate a liquid or powder emulsifier (sodium stearoyl glutamate is an example)
  • @Pharma thanks , blends as in Tego care ltp (Sorbitan laurate, polyglyceryl-4 laurate, dilauryl citrate) added with a co-emulsifier?

    Never tried w/o Hipe, not sure i know what that is.

    @EVchem could we counter not using synthetic thickener with using synthetics like pentylene glycol, or esters, at least for skin feel
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    I meant gum or polymer blends, not emulsifier blends because, like EVchem said, the feel is not super great but mixing different gums can help.
    Alchemy Ingredients had a w/o HIPE... discontinued or temporarily unavailable? Anyway, PDF HERE. Ask @ngarayeva001 for help, she likes those but I guess she goes for silicones and polyacrylates...
  • tracingrobotstracingrobots Member
    edited May 21
    @Pharma that is interesting. do you know who resells hipe? Alchemy must have 20kg moq. Any long term stability issues since i see in their sample formulations there is no fatty alcohols.

    @ngarayeva001 Will be trying HIPE aqua, if you have any tips that would be appreciated.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    edited May 21
    Nope, I'm playing around making my own but it's o/w. Easier than it first sounded (once you got the principle) but still harder than a simple emulsion (it's a bit finicky to prepare and has its own rules).
    The basic ingredients are a nonionic high HLB emulsifier with not too long a headgroup and a nonionic low HLB emulsifier, glycerol and magnesium sulphate each at +/- the right %. You don't necessarily have to do the whole HIPE, if you D-phase fails, ditch it, if not, you've got a fair chance at a decent product (long term stability is a different story).
    Alternatively, combos of PEG-derivatives like Brij plus Span are what's commonly used. Alchemy goes with poylglycerols (I like those, more eco).
  • Hey guys. Well you can actually create a gel that is w/o or better w/si without acrylates (like Sepinov, Aristoflex). But it definitely must have more than 5% of oil (it will still feel light). The best emulsifier for this would be Abil EM 90. 
    This product by Laneige is a good example of a light gel

  • @pharma spoke with Alchemy in the UK and they have discontinued HIPE Aqua (stability issues). She highly recommended Sucramulse Pro in combo with Clearthix S.

    She ask, as testing point use this formula, below, it's a cold process that uses cetyl alcohol as well. Will Cetyl alcohol go into solution in this protocol? Apparently it does from what they say. Any takes?




  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Honestly, I'd melt the butter and waxy substances (glyceryl stearate, cetyl alcohol) in the oils first. Let cool down below 50°C or so and process as proposed. I think it would take forever to dissolve at room temp...

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