Gel based Hand sanitizer

hrajanhrajan Member
Hi Hari thiagarajan,

I have 22 years experience in Herbal extract ,fine chemical and speciality chemicals.

I have handled various tasks,supply chain ,product formulation,quality control ,product management and Environmental.


Now i doing lab trial for gel based (carbomer), it is  working up to 60% IPA when I adding more than that the gel is breaking and become precipitate and settling.

Kindly give me your suggestion how can I prepare 70 to 75 % IPA. Which is mandatory.

Comments

  • Use neutrol TE by BASF as neutralizer, or use ANGUS brand AMP 95. It can neutralize and thicken carbomer even with 90% alcohol content. Hope this helps
  • hrajanhrajan Member
    I have add 0.3% TEA for neutralization it is working up to 60% IPA more than that not working.
  • what is the percentage of carbomer 
  • hrajanhrajan Member
    0.4 used
  • hrajanhrajan Member
    25% water,because as per our norms we should use min.70%IPA in the formulation
  • em88em88 Member
    edited April 26
    It depends on the carbomer type and what are you neutralizing with.
    You should post the full formula if you need a specific help. 
  • hrajanhrajan Member
    Surely will send it
  • hrajanhrajan Member
    Formula,we need min 70%IPA content.
    So water used around 24% and 75% IPA

    Water                23.70
    Carbomer.          0.35
    IPA.                     75.00
    TEA.                      0.25
    Glycerine.             0.30
    Colour.                   0.20
    Perfume.               0.20                
  • hrajanhrajan Member
    Sorry PG missed in the above formula

    Water                23.20
    Carbomer.          0.35
    PG.                      0.50
    IPA.                     75.00
    TEA.                      0.25
    Glycerine.             0.30
    Colour.                   0.20
    Perfume.               0.20                
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited April 27
    Here is a nice working formula:
    Even has the instructions....from a great company.
    70%

    https://www.floratech.com/PDFs/Formulary/CleansersToners/C028.pdf

  • hrajanhrajan Member
    Thanks,it is Ethanol based but I am trying with IPA
  • em88em88 Member
    hrajan said:
    Surely will send it
    Great.
    There are several ways to prepare the gel, the difference is minimal in industrial equipment. 
    Add IPA (try first with 70%) and water and mix. After that add carbomer (try with 0.5%) and disperse it. It depends on the carbomer you have, 940 and 980 should do the job. Once the carbomer is very well dispersed add TEA till the pH is 6.5 (6-7). After that, you can add PG and glycerine.  Colour and perfume may influence the viscosity. 
    If the results are acceptable you can optimize the formulation in terms of sensory feeling or adding 5% more IPA. 
  • hrajanhrajan Member
    Thank you for your valuable suggestion,will try  and update
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @hrajan actually with TEA you will not able to reach more then 60% IPA, take a look for that. https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/uploads/editor/gn/0fbgsjljgbf9.png

  • hrajanhrajan Member
    Thanks Fekher,really valuable info.

    Yes,i have tried With TEA with variable trials. It was precipitated and settling down as precipitate.

    Surely will try with other neutraliser.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    You are welcome @hrajan
  • hrajanhrajan Member
    Can i get the document TDS 255
  • hrajanhrajan Member
    Formulating hand sanitizer gel with carbopol polymer
  • CetarCetar Member
    Better to stick to AMP for neutralization at that alcohol volume, TEA for carbomer only works in formulas up to 60% alcohol.
  • hrajanhrajan Member
    Thank you for your valuable info. It is very useful 
  • em88em88 Member
    hrajan said:
    Thank you for your valuable info. It is very useful 
    Have you made any new trials?
    Fekher said:
    @hrajan actually with TEA you will not able to reach more then 60% IPA, take a look for that. https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/uploads/editor/gn/0fbgsjljgbf9.png

    I have managed to formulate 70% IPA with carbomer/TEA. Same for ethanol.
  • ZeeshanZeeshan Member, PCF student
    em88 said:
    I have managed to formulate 70% IPA with carbomer/TEA. Same for ethanol.
    How did you manage that? Did you neutralize first then add the IPA / ethanol?

    I could not go past 60% as well.

    Thanks.
  • em88em88 Member
    I wrote the steps above. We registered a product with 70% m/m ethanol already.
    Maybe you are looking for high viscosity gels? For me 6000-10000 cP is enough for a hand sanitizer. 
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @em88 may the purity of your IPA and Ethanol are fake that's why you could do it ?
    I also try it below 70% IPA approximately 60% end with precipitation. If the purity of your product are right that leads to say Lubrizol data are fake? really I don't think soo... 
    What do you think @Perry @Gunther @Pharma @lmosca @Chemist77 @Cafe33 @ngarayeva001
  • em88em88 Member
    We are a pharmaceutical industry with GMP and the supplier of ethanol is certified as well. We also test the purity of ethanol. The concentration is 96%. 
    What does lubrizol say? And by the way, we work only with lubrizol. 
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @em88 that what Lubrizol Said. 
      So do you think that Lubrizol can be wrong?! 


  • em88em88 Member
    edited April 30
    Oh, now I see. I remember that paper.
    Well, have you tried any of those formulations? 
    I have tried a few of them, as I remember not all the data presented there did match with my results. To be fair, this is normal. It happens many times from different manufacturers. I believe those data are to create an idea about the performance of their products and the difference between neutralizers. Also in that particular table, it is not mentioned what carbomer did they use. 
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    I find I can make 63% ethanol gel using TEA to neutralise.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • HimanshuHimanshu Member
    Hi all, 
    May I know the reason behind the precipitation of TEA when we used alcohol above 60% ? And why AMP does not ppt out and give clear gel.
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    edited May 1
    At a guess, this:
    Carbomer as I understand it, is acrylic acid. So when you neutralise it, you get a salt. In the case of the different bases, you'll get, for instance, sodium acylate, potassium acrylate, and someone else will have to tell me what the rest are. And each salt will have a different solubility in alcohol.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • GuntherGunther Member
    Belassi said:
    At a guess, this:
    Carbomer as I understand it, is acrylic acid. So when you neutralise it, you get a salt. In the case of the different bases, you'll get, for instance, sodium acylate, potassium acrylate, and someone else will have to tell me what the rest are. And each salt will have a different solubility in alcohol.
    That's indeed the reason why.
    Na, K salts are very water soluble but not too alcohol soluble, hence the need to use "exotic" neutralizers.

    Salts are usually much less soluble in IPA than in ethanol.
  • HimanshuHimanshu Member
    Is there any temperature dependency with the mixing of carbopol? Like if I mix any carbopol grade with chilled water having temperature around 5-10C, will it dissolve properly or form lumps?
  • joanafloresjoanaflores Member
    edited May 13
    em88 said:
    I wrote the steps above. We registered a product with 70% m/m ethanol already.
    Maybe you are looking for high viscosity gels? For me 6000-10000 cP is enough for a hand sanitizer. 
    Hello, can you say how much triethanolamine do you use?

     I am using 0.35% carbopol 940.

    When I add 0.17% triethanolamine, in the last half, it forms a milky mixture and it losses all viscosity.

    I am concerned that this happens because I only have 20% m/m of water.
  • GuntherGunther Member
    em88 said:
    I wrote the steps above. We registered a product with 70% m/m ethanol already.
    Maybe you are looking for high viscosity gels? For me 6000-10000 cP is enough for a hand sanitizer. 
    Hello, can you say how much triethanolamine do you use?

     I am using 0.35% carbopol 940.

    When I add 0.17% triethanolamine, in the last half, it forms a milky mixture and it losses all viscosity.

    I am concerned that this happens because I only have 20% m/m of water.
    May I ask what alcohol are you using? ethyl or isopropyl
    What's the alcohol concentration in the gel?

    I'm asking you because you can only make up to 60% alcohol using TEA (and that with Carbopol Ultrez, I don't know if that works with 940)

    To get beyond 60% alcohol, you'll need some other neutralizers as stated in the Lubrizol document: Neutralizing Carbopol and Pemulen in Aqueous Hydroalcoholic Systems.

  • em88em88 Member
    em88 said:
    I wrote the steps above. We registered a product with 70% m/m ethanol already.
    Maybe you are looking for high viscosity gels? For me 6000-10000 cP is enough for a hand sanitizer. 
    Hello, can you say how much triethanolamine do you use?

     I am using 0.35% carbopol 940.

    When I add 0.17% triethanolamine, in the last half, it forms a milky mixture and it losses all viscosity.

    I am concerned that this happens because I only have 20% m/m of water.
    I have worked with carbomer 940 very long time ago and I don't remember the concentration of triethanolamine. At the moment we work only with carbomer 980. For this type of carbomer we use about 0.1% of triethanolamine. You should check the pH of the gel and be in the range of 6-7. Use a low mixing speed when neutralizing.
    I'd recommend you to use 0.4-0.5% carbomer. 
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