Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate the same as Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate?

I recently got a sample of Rewpol SB FA 30 B (Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate) and was wonder if it was the same or similar to Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate? Im trying to formulate a darn shampoo and IDK why Im so strung up on which surfactants to use. Yes Im going the non sulfate path...help?! haha

Comments

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    edited April 13
    The two are not the same.
    Non sulfate path? From a chemical point of view, you're correct. Everything else, you're likely not. Your two ingredients are sulfonates, chemically very closely related to sulfates and behaviour and environmental faith wise more or less identical, probably a bit better on this edge and a bit worse on the other but all in all, it's the same. I don't know for sure whether or not all these are really more gentle than SLS and SLES or just a few whilst most are in the range of SLES and the rest is hearsay.
    Every time I see a 'Contains no sulfate' on a sulfonate formulation, I can only shake my head... the miracles and wonders of modern marketing or the question of 'Is there intelligent life in the universe?'...
  • @Pharma Many women now are following certain hair guidelines where they eliminate certain detergents that have either been shown to be harsher then others or "not naturally derived" etc. Theres list that many women follow and of course as you know the term "sulphate" alone sends many women running from that shampoo. Or if they do use it, its infrequent. I know personally for me, my hair feels very stripped after I use a sulfate shampoo, even if I deep condition after (which many women dont have time for) so I trying to find "gentler" solutions, and the detergent I listed above was recommended. I just dont know what to pair it with...Can I use 2 detergents fine in a workable formula? I see some shampoos with 3-7 detergents in them sometimes. 
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    What do you mean "strung up on which surfactant to use"?  What specifically is causing you to not just pick one?  If you want to try one a sulfosuccinate or a sulfoacetate, then just try it. There is nothing particularly more natural or even more gentle about these ingredients but saying they are "not sulfates" probably gets you all the marketing mileage you need.  Yes, you can use 2 detergents to make a workable formula.  You could even make a shampoo using 1 detergent.

    But there is a difference between making a "workable" product and making a "good" product that people want to keep using.

    If you want to make a product that is good that people keep using, you should use a sulfate formula.  All of the best-selling drugstore brands use sulfates & even most of the best sellers on Amazon use sulfates.  This is because despite what consumers are told by marketers, the Internet, and stylists, sulfate formulas work better.  But I digress...

    In a shampoo you typically have a primary surfactant and one or two secondary surfactants.  The primary surfactant can work by itself but with a secondary surfactant you can modify the foam characteristics, the rinsibility, and even the level of "gentleness." 7 surfactants seems ridiculous & amateurish to me to include in a formula but sometimes people just use blends that the raw material companies send them. 
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    My hair also prefers sulfate-free shampoo though these usually come with a variety of drawbacks:
    - Hair re-fattens faster = more frequent washing needed
    - Difficult to find a good product (usually in organic/eco markets), most just don't cut it
    - Sensorial aspects such as creaminess, smell, visual appearance, lather etc. are often close to inexistent
    From an economic point of view (that's most of what @Perry is all about), sulfate-free detergents have additional drawbacks:
    - More expensive
    - Sourcing constant and large quantities of +/- identical quality (no batch-to-batch variation and no shortage) is not evident
    - More time & efforts needed to come up with a pleasing & performing formulation
    - Thickening agents other than cheap salt are usually required if a 'consumer-friendly' creamy texture is envisaged
    - Preservation might be an issue (more different and more expensive preservatives)
    -> Bottom line is, many sulfate-free shampoos aren't made for the masses but rather dwell a niche existence.
    The most obvious solution is cheating = using sulfonate-based surfactants. The same has been done with phosphates in laundry and dishwasher detergents. Fortunately, the practice of using phosphonates instead was for most companies a rather short intermezzo.
    Imagine you meet the prince of your dreams. I'm oldschool in this regard, so I in his place wouldn't ask you at one of the first dates what kind of shampoo I should place in the shower... but even if, you probably wouldn't mind too much had the fresh love of your life a 'wrong' product in the bath. It'll just be a good opportunity for some thorough re-education :smile: .
    Anyway, assuming he's like me, then he's probably going to ask you what food you like and which one you don't. Say you didn't like cabbage, are allergic to wheat, and could NEVER eat horse meat. What would you say if he'd invite you to dinner and served stir fried kale, durum couscous, and mule steak?
    Technically, he's serving 'sulfate-free' but practically... I wouldn't be astonished were you to decide right then and there that you'd rather have a couple tiny Rocky Mountain oysters instead :smiley: .
  • @Perry Sorry its been a while. I think simply being a beginner and learning about all of these different ingredients, whether their ionic or non ionic and how one works with the other and if Im using 2 of the same or different that will compliment each other and % of usage for each when working together etc is what has got me strung up haha. It does seem as though shampoos with Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate or Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate as the primary surfactant seem to work really well for my own hair and I never feel like I need a "sulfate" per say to cleanse my hair really well. But anyways, I think my amminture skills may be holding me aup a bit plainly haha. 
  • czkldczkld Member
    @Pharma
    I find that davines has great quality and a superior selection so you can match it to your needs. Sulfate free.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Thanks for the tip @czkld . I'll have a look at these.
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