Keratin shampoo

Unfortunately I am desperate with shampoo formulations
i am making keratin  SLS shampoo but results not good enough with many formulations.
last one I even added SLES in small percentage but also was not perfect for hair, it makes the hair look faint and stripped off oils. But soft and frizz free. 
I made the following formula
SLES 70 4%
SLSarcosinate 9%
Betain45% 8%
Sodium amphoacetate 5%
guar 0.2
Quatrinum 0.2
keratin 0.5
peg-caprylic capric triglycerides 0.75%
thickeners PEG 200
CDEA 1.5%

i tried removing SLES and add alternatively laurel glycoside 5% with SLSarcosinate 5% but cleaning was not enough and weak foam

could some body do me favor and guide me why this is happening..

Comments

  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Inadequate amount of surfactants.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Belassi said:
    Inadequate amount of surfactants.
    Very thankful for your help, so the dry feeling come because of an adequate cleaning effect and solve will be by increasing surfactant percentage, and will still mild formula
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    You have a lot of CDEA in there but I see no mention of pH adjustment, what's the pH?
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • CDEA 1.5%
    ph is 6
  • Belassi said:
    You have a lot of CDEA in there but I see no mention of pH adjustment, what's the pH?
    Ph 6
    but I saw some formula for Croda shampoo putting 3% SLauroyl Sarcosinate+SLES3% plus betain45 5%  with Keratin hydrolyzed.

    i feel desperate beCause of lifeless feel resulted in the hair 
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    A recommendation: Get some Stepan APB (all purpose blend) and try that. Use CAPB for thickening. About 18% of the blend would be about right. Compare the result with what you are trying to do.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Belassi said:
    A recommendation: Get some Stepan APB (all purpose blend) and try that. Use CAPB for thickening. About 18% of the blend would be about right. Compare the result with what you are trying to do.
    Thank yolu belassi, I will try to find Stephan APB and let you know the results,
  • Hello guys again, I almost give up to have a softener conditioning shampoo, I do not know why, my last sulfate free formula was
    olefin sulfonate 6%
    Sodium lauruyl sarcosinate 3%
    CAPB 1.5%
    Lamesoft po65 2%
    peg-7 capryl capric triglyceride 0.5%
    silicon emulsion 0.5%
    crambe oil ester 0.1%
    glycerin 2%
    panthenol 0.25%
    amino acids solution 0.25%
    lactic acid
    ph 6

     Results is not so good on the basis of softness and vitality of hair, hair not well moisturized or glowing. 
    I just want to know if my surfactant percentGe not enough or the opposite that it is too much and striped off the oils of the hair.
    please help

  • I have to add that I could not find alternative to olefin sulfonate, I consider it equal to SLES in performance so it should not be any problem regard its performance
     in c
    Cleaning and foam formation 

  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    I have found that the choice of surfactants makes by far the biggest difference in the performance of a shampoo. I can't comment on your two primary surfactants because I have never used them. 1.5% of CAPB is almost nothing, it seems to me you should check the ASM total % first.
    Lamesoft PO-65: It is a softener. I tried it myself in shampoos at 1, 2, and 3%. I no longer use it in shampoo. It leaves the hair "limp". I suggest you first remove it, see what the result is like. Then try adding 1% of Polyquart H-81 instead (a condensed resin) and retest.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Belassi said:
    I have found that the choice of surfactants makes by far the biggest difference in the performance of a shampoo. I can't comment on your two primary surfactants because I have never used them. 1.5% of CAPB is almost nothing, it seems to me you should check the ASM total % first.
    Lamesoft PO-65: It is a softener. I tried it myself in shampoos at 1, 2, and 3%. I no longer use it in shampoo. It leaves the hair "limp". I suggest you first remove it, see what the result is like. Then try adding 1% of Polyquart H-81 instead (a condensed resin) and retest.
    Thank you Belassi for reply, Actually I found lamesoft is useful as softener may be I am wrong, but regard ASM is 10.5, is it enough?
    i forget to mention Cocamid DEA 1.5% in the formula also.
    how do you think of adding Peg-75 lanolin beside PEG-6 Caprylic capric triglyceride to enhance softness?
    I suspect silicon emulsions as Xiameter 0949 will give bad results, do you think so?
    Someone advice me to add corn Syrup in the formula, I have not seen similar advice.
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    edited June 7
    Yes, PO-65 is a softener, that's precisely the problem. You don't want soft hair, you want springy, resilient hair. That's why the H-81. It deposits a thin resin layer that leaves a really nice effect.
    If the ASM is 10.5, OK. Myself I use 12-14%. Again it depends on the surfactants,
    I don't like the effect of Cocamide DEA and it's a pain having to compensate for the extreme pH. I use Cocamide MEA.
    Can't advise on the lanolin idea. I assume the PEG-6 is a refattener, I use PEG-7 GC at 1%. 
    Can't comment either on the silicone emulsion. The only silicone I ever use is Silsense DW-16 which is a water-dispersible silicone ester. I use it either/and the H-81 for similar reasons.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
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