Sanitiser

I'm going to try my hand at this... after reading the BASF info my first attempt will be:
Water 12.2%
ETOH (70%) 86%
Aloe powder 0.1%
Lavender EO 0.1%
Carbomer Ultrez-20 0.25%
TEA 0.25%
PG 0.5%
Silsense DW-16 0.3%
Glucam E-20 0.3%


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Comments

  • BelassiBelassi Member
    I just made this. Unfortunately I had to use 940 instead of Ultrez-20 because my Ultrez had gone solid. So with that, and the 0.1% EO, it's not clear, but the overall effect is excellent, good sensorial, after-aroma of lavender, non-tacky.
    Method: Dissolve aloe and EO in alcohol, add carbomer to water, leave to swell, rapid mixing, then add the PG, E20 and Silsense. Mix well, add the TEA, with slow mixing, then slowly add the alcohol mix, blend, that's it.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • AgateAgate Member
    Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
  • Does 940 make gel in IPA? I tried but gel breakdown
    or it was due to fast adding of IPA?
  • alchemist01alchemist01 Member
    edited March 9
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the ethanol concentration in sanitizers generally %v/v? Right now you're sitting at 60.2%wt which would be 76.3%v/v which doesn't seem like an intentional amount.
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    This was not IPA it was 70% denatured ethanol from the shop.

    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    Amit what was the order of addition, did you neutralize the carbomer first (which seems to be the case as you mention the breakdown of the gel)???  Haven't done a gel myself with IPA but I don't see any issues with IPA as there are tons of sanitizers with IPA in them. 
  • GuntherGunther Member
    86% EtOH @70% will yield 60.2% total alcohol

    That's a bit low as studies show that 70 to 85% alcohol work better
    And even that fails to kill all bacteria or destroy some viruses

    https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/disinfection/disinfection-methods/chemical.html
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4623738/
    http://www.scielo.br/pdf/rlae/v21n2/0104-1169-rlae-21-02-0618.pdf

  • I first neutralize then add IPA.-IPA 75% v/v.
    I make gel IPA sanitiser with 0.25% ACUPEC HV 701 EDR polymer. Nice gel.
    Will try to add Chlorhexidine.
  • EvenEven Member
    edited March 11
    I would like to ask a question
    Are Hand sanitizers (contain  alcohol 75%) OTC product??
    Thanks for your help.

  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    No CHG Amit, cationic. Stick to Aqupec 701, one of the best I have used. 
  • Chemist77 said:
    No CHG Amit, cationic. Stick to Aqupec 701, one of the best I have used. 

    @Chemist77 ; Thank you.
  • AgateAgate Member
    edited March 12
    Even said:
    I would like to ask a question
    Are Hand sanitizers (contain  alcohol 75%) OTC product??
    Thanks for your help.

    You'll have to check your local regulations on this.
    Where I live, hand sanitizers form their own regulatory group of biocidal chemical products which require specific efficacy testing if they contain any more than a total of 0.5%w/w additives to the water, alcohol and denaturant mix. They also require 70-80%v/v ethanol, or 60-80%v/v for IPA to avoid the testing requirement. Other countries I've heard require hand sanitizer production to take place in GMP-certified facilities. Just mentioning these as some things to look out for.
  • Happy to be here. I live in Nigeria. I also made gel sanitisers and my formula is almost similar as @Belassi... however i didnt use polyethylene glycol and silense and glucam.... The gel came out okay but was not very clear though. I will try out this formula too.... 
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    for what it's worth, aminomethyl propanol (AMP) is more soluble in alcohol, and forms more stable gels, than TEA
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • Cafe33Cafe33 Member
    What a coincidence, I made something similar today.

    Phase A:

    Q.S. - dH20
    0.3% - Carbopol 940 
    1.5% - Glycerine

    Phase B

    65% EtOH (96%) (Added Slowly under mixing)
    0.6 % Lavender essential oil
    0.3 % TEA 

    (0.5% Lavender was more than enough to completely mask the smell of Alc)

    Was not impressed with the thickness of the gel. Could it be from the excess lavender?

    I have ultrez-20 and Pemulen in stock, I might try those. 


     
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    edited March 13
    I recommend you use Ultrez-20. 940 is a short-flow carbomer and Ultrez long-flow, has better sensorials and also gives clear gels in alcohol. Your 0.6% lavender EO seems too high for my liking, I used 0.1% and it's quite noticeable and lasting at that level. It seemed to me that frequent use would produce lavender hands... the reason I used Glucam is that it's similar to glycerin but much less sticky.
    Unfortunately I am out of stock of Ultrez and guess what? I cannot find any anywhere. Alternatives please?
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    Belassi said:

    Unfortunately I am out of stock of Ultrez and guess what? I cannot find any anywhere. Alternatives please?

    You and the rest of the world I think. We are having major issues trying to obtain any polymer that can be used in Hand Sanitisers.

    I saw this video this morning from Belinda Carli at the institute of Personal Care  Science and she uses Sepimax Zen. You might still be able to get that.



  • BelassiBelassi Member
    I suspect that the carbomer was coming out of Chinese factories.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Cafe33Cafe33 Member
    So I spoke too soon about the viscosity, I guess it takes some time to get thicker.

    Belassi, I agree, 0.6% Lavender was overkill. I started with 0.1% but it still smelled very strongly of Alcohol. 

    I thought about reaching for the Glucam but I am worried it will dull the scent. Am I correct to assume it could be a problem? 

    Is Pemulen by Lubrizol possible for this application? I have it in stock and it seems to be available from a certain Mexican supplier.
  • amitvedakaramitvedakar Member
    edited March 13
    ACRYLATES/C10-30 ALKYL ACRYLATE CROSSPOLYMER works fine

    The rate increased 25-30%.
    Packing materials one month waiting in india.
  • AgateAgate Member
    edited March 13
    Hand sanitizer is not a cosmetic. It is a biocidal product that people rely on for their safety. If you make a bad formula, you're not just giving someone a bad hair day, you're potentially playing a part in their grandmother's death. Unless you get your product tested, you are under a moral obligation, and in some places a legal obligation to use least 70%v/v ethanol or 60%v/v IPA.
    Also, gelling agents are not an essential part of hand sanitizer and potentially compromising the efficacy of the product. Quote from the WHO Guide to Local Production:
    No data are available to assess the suitability of adding gelling agents to WHO-recommended liquid formulations, but this could increase potentially both production difficulties and costs, and may compromise antimicrobial efficacy.
    I've only ever seen liquid hand sanitizer used in the three hospitals I've worked in and dozens that I've visited. This was a deliberate choice in one of the most advanced health care systems in the world. So as a doctor, I choose to make the proven WHO formula for myself and my family:
  • EvenEven Member
    Thank you friends for your comments. @Agate
    Where can I check U.S. regulations for sanitiser?
    Sanitiser in my country is not the OTC Product. But I don't know is it an OTC Product in the U.S. 
  • AgateAgate Member
    @Even I'm not familiar with US regulations, I would start by checking with the FDA. My viewpoint is informed from research on the situation in Switzerland.
  • EvenEven Member
    Thank you friends for your comments. @Agate
  • GabyDGabyD Member
    Thanks @Agate for the WHO link. In your opinion, if you removed the Peroxide, how much effect would it have on the efficacy of the formula?
  • AgateAgate Member
    Here's what the guide says:
    Hydrogen peroxide: used to inactivate contaminating bacterial spores in the solution and is not an active substance for hand antisepsis

    So, if you remove the hydrogen peroxide, it won't affect how well the sanitizers kills the viruses. However, hydrogen peroxide does act on bacterial spores in the sanitizer itself, and it is important to deactivate those so that you don't catch a bacterial disease from it.

    Hydrogen peroxide shouldn't be hard to get, I would just add it if you can at all. If you really can't, I would personally still use it, but that's just me and not something I would suggest if you intend to sell it.


  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    I tried to make sample of gel sanitizer the lol is :smile:
    Carbomer 996 : 0,5%
    TEA : 0,5 %
    IPA : 60%
    EDTA : 0,1 %
    Water: Qsp
    The process put water, add Carbomer, neutralizer with TEA untill  getting good gel, adding half amount of IPA was good when add all amount gel broke down, and I get precipitation of Carbomer, I add water to reduce the level of IPA and get gel but it did not work
    So why even I reduce the level of IPA Lower then 60% I did not get gel? 
    Is there any solution to correct the sample? 
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    Have you tried 940?

    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Before anyone else wastes materials that are expensive or might be hard to replace, from recent experience I have learned that Sepimax Zen works well with ethanol, or even a blend of 60 ethanol and 10 isopropyl to 70% by weight as close as I could calculate it, though Aristoflex AVC is more elegant feeling with if you're using all ethanol. In the past I have typically used about 1-2% propylene glycol or propanediol and 2% isopropyl myristate with the gellants, alcohol(s), and water.

    However, neither Aristoflex AVC nor Zen is as accomodating with isopropyl at 70% volume or weight. The AVC refused to interact with the isopropyl alcohol. The Zen looked like it might work, but it stayed liquidy and then separate i blobs when I left it overnight. It was cloudy and once I poured off most of the isopropyl and added a bit of distilled water just to see what would happen, the Zen did gel or fully hydrate as expected. Lovely mass of mildly alcoholic smelling cloudy gel. Sepigel 305 didn't work either, it blobbed into rubbery bits.

    To be fair, I'm only a hobbyist, so I might be doing it wrong.

    Since I don't have any Ultrez 10 or 20 or carbopol 940 or high concentration ethanol, and only part of a liter of 91% isopropyl alcohol left, I decided to just buy some small spray bottles and live with liquid sanitizer.
  • If the carbopols or ultrezes aren't available, you can try Rheocare C plus from BASF @ 0.25% , and neutralise with AMP 95. This is for 65% Ethanol based. 
  • Using a homemade sanitizer is harmful 
    And can we use isopropyl9
  • Can anyone please help me about sanitizer ..as I m using carbopol and isopropyl9
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @rajastyle if you make gel sanitizer with minimum level 60% of alcohol it will be fine. 
  • crillzcrillz Member
    justaerin said:
    Before anyone else wastes materials that are expensive or might be hard to replace, from recent experience I have learned that Sepimax Zen works well with ethanol, or even a blend of 60 ethanol and 10 isopropyl to 70% by weight as close as I could calculate it, though Aristoflex AVC is more elegant feeling with if you're using all ethanol. In the past I have typically used about 1-2% propylene glycol or propanediol and 2% isopropyl myristate with the gellants, alcohol(s), and water.

    However, neither Aristoflex AVC nor Zen is as accomodating with isopropyl at 70% volume or weight. The AVC refused to interact with the isopropyl alcohol. The Zen looked like it might work, but it stayed liquidy and then separate i blobs when I left it overnight. It was cloudy and once I poured off most of the isopropyl and added a bit of distilled water just to see what would happen, the Zen did gel or fully hydrate as expected. Lovely mass of mildly alcoholic smelling cloudy gel. Sepigel 305 didn't work either, it blobbed into rubbery bits.

    To be fair, I'm only a hobbyist, so I might be doing it wrong.

    Since I don't have any Ultrez 10 or 20 or carbopol 940 or high concentration ethanol, and only part of a liter of 91% isopropyl alcohol left, I decided to just buy some small spray bottles and live with liquid sanitizer.
    Sorry, do u mean the Seppimax Zen did work or didn't. Also if it did do u know where to source, everywhere seems sold out.
  • @crillz no problem. Sepimax Zen didn't work with isopropyl at 70% for me. Zen did work with ~65-70% ethanol for me.

    All of the polymers that are known to work well with high amounts of alcohols are out of stock at the suppliers I've used.
  • @justaerin why do you need  70% IPA anyway? You only need 60% w/w as per WHO.
    And for ethanol, i guess you need 73.5% w/w. 

  • Trial goes Ok with ACRYLATES/C10-30 ALKYL ACRYLATE CROSSPOLYMER.
    with 0.4%.
    but troubling taking big batches. Gel not forming. after adding 40% IPA gel breakdown. is it because of IPA pH 5.5.
    does Quality of IPA effect? 


  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    IPA grade matters. Some qualities are even alkaline though really pure IPA/water mixtures are pH neutral (pH 7).
    You always have to adjust pH with pH sensitive gellants.
  • @Padmavathi I haven't seen a 60% guideline for IPA from WHO, but I might have missed it. Everything I have seen from them, and from studies done on their handrub formulations, don't suggest anything lower than 70% vol/vol for IPA.

    There is a new USP document that gives a formulation for a 60% v/v version made from 70% v/v IPA, but they don't give any references for it and I don't know if it has been tested.

  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    If you are going to attempt to make hand sanitizer, please follow the guidelines by the WHO.
    https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf?ua=1

    Stay safe everyone.
  • Thank you sir.
  • @justaerin the WHO guideline i read said 75% v/v of IPA which is about 60% w/w. 
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    edited March 23
    @Padmavathi 60 % w/w  is far and lower then 75 % v/v . 
  • @Fekheri, density of IPA is 0.78509 . So that multiplied by 75 (ml) should give you the weight of it, which is 58.88 g. I Approximated it to 60. 
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @Padmavathi with that calculation you just calculate grams  of pure IPA For 75 ml. For passing from v/v to w/w make some reasearchement it is  not as simple as you calculate. 
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    I'm getting better at this. Lubrizol 940 works perfectly well, I made a batch today using 0.4% carbomer and it was a little thicker than wanted, I suggest 0.35% if using 940. I added 0.1% lavender essential oil to help inhibit microbial spores since I have no H2O2 in stock. End result smelled good and looked slightly hazy. 
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    @Belassi You're not going to kill spores with lavender EO. What you need is one or several of the following strategies:
    - Use another oxidising agent: Iodine or hypochlorit comes to mind
    - Cook the sh*ç@ out of your product (not to recommend with gels and alcoholic products, you know why better than I do :blush: )
    - Use sterile filtration (not easy with gels and doesn't solve container contamination and the like)
    - Don't care about spores (for more or less clean raw materials and GMP/GxP an acceptable decision)
    - Use an aldehyde: Formaldehyde and glutaraldehyde are common but require uncomfortably high levels to go from sporistatic to sporicidal. As an educated guess, aldehyde containing EOs might be an option (unfortunately, that includes several of those which have to be labelled due to allergic potential exactly due to presence of reactive aldehydes).
    The trick with spores is that they are very tough nuts to crack and require removal, heat (for some species even more than the product can take), or chemical reactions. Lavender EO contains mostly hydrocarbons as well as phenols and esters thereof which do not undergo necessary chemical reactions with spores. If you need inspiration which to choose, döTerra as an example has a list for possible candidates (first hit asking Google).
    BTW go somewhat acidic (alkaline would work too but destroys the skin acid mantle and that's obviously bad, worse regarding the current situation).
  • AgateAgate Member
    Just a bit of safety info on essential oils, particularly the highly allergenic cinnamaldehyde. At 1% concentration, 2% of patch tests showed a reaction, "this makes cinnamaldehyde the most high-risk essential oil constituent known from patch testing (Tisserand and Young 2014, p93)." The recommended maximum safe dilution of cinnamon bark oil is below 0.07%. I don't know if that is high enough to do anything against spores though. 
    (Source: https://tisserandinstitute.org/new-survey-reveals-dangers-of-not-diluting-essential-oils/)

    Furthermore, since Ethanol enhances penetration, I would personally want to go even lower than that or avoid potential allergens altogether. Hydrogen peroxide is easy enough to buy, and by the way also very useful for surface disinfection if you don't know what to do with the rest of the bottle. Just be sure to dilute appropriately and wear gloves... Ouch.
  • em88em88 Member
    I haven't read all the posts and maybe someone already said it, but remove the water and I don't see any point in adding aloe there.
    PG is way too low. 
  • @Fekher okay i will check. 
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