Thickeners Recommendation

Any body can help me in some points
- can we thicken shampoo with Aerosil 200? Is it bad for hair on the long term?
- Any cost effective thickener for sulfate free shampoo?
- can I use Bentonite as thickener in Shampoo or skin emulsions?

I hope you can help me in this points please

Comments

  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Thickeners: PEG-150 distearate, CMEA, Glucamate LT or VLT
    Bentonite?  Not a good idea. Highly alkaline.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Belassi said:
    Thickeners: PEG-150 distearate, CMEA, Glucamate LT or VLT
    Bentonite?  Not a good idea. Highly alkaline.
    Thank you for your reply, I have peg-150 diesterate, it is hard to work with.

    CMEA is not the same as CDEA? I mean same effect

    also I am using Antil 120 plus but it is very high cost and I see its effect is not effective, I used 1,5 % with no sufficient thickness. 
    So I wonder if Glucamate is same effect or better than previously mentioned materials?

    also I wonder if Acrylate is more convenient to use or not?
    i see there is some famous shampoo texture is plasticized and if you touch it your finger it seems like touching plastic material! Is it because of Acrylate?
     
  • I saw some companies also recommend Silica like Aerosil 200, how do you think this thickener
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    If you make a shampoo with SLS, SLES and Cocamidopropyl Betaine, you can use salt as your thickener. You don't need a separate thickener.
  • Perry said:
    If you make a shampoo with SLS, SLES and Cocamidopropyl Betaine, you can use salt as your thickener. You don't need a separate thickener.
    I am using in sulfate free salt free shampoo.

  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    i see there is some famous shampoo texture is plasticized and if you touch it your finger it seems like touching plastic material! Is it because of Acrylate?
    Very probably. 
    I don't know why you think PEG-150 distearate is difficult. Used at up to 1.5% it's useful to build viscosity and cocamide MEA at 1.5% also helps, and boosts foam.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Belassi said:
    i see there is some famous shampoo texture is plasticized and if you touch it your finger it seems like touching plastic material! Is it because of Acrylate?
    Very probably. 
    I don't know why you think PEG-150 distearate is difficult. Used at up to 1.5% it's useful to build viscosity and cocamide MEA at 1.5% also helps, and boosts foam.
    It Is temperature dependent, mean stability will not be good. Also it is time consuming in dissolving and mixing, 

    how do you think about Aerosil 200 as plus thickener?
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    It Is temperature dependent, mean stability will not be good. 
     ---- Thickeners ARE temperature dependent.
    Also it is time consuming in dissolving and mixing,
     ---- Well, you're the one who wanted a sulphate-free shampoo! These problems come with that.
    how do you think about Aerosil 200 as plus thickener?
     ---- No idea, sorry.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • AndrewSeelAndrewSeel Member
    edited March 2
    Belassi said:
    It Is temperature dependent, mean stability will not be good. 
     ---- Thickeners ARE temperature dependent.

    Acrylate is not as i think
     ---- Well, you're the one who wanted a sulphate-free shampoo! These problems come with that.

    I am thinking of Using potassium Cocoate as an option in Sulfate frene Shampoo it mat solve the problem 
  • EVchemEVchem Member
    I think Aerosil 200 would not be your best choice

    1) I imagine it would take a decent amount and you could find other thickeners cheaper
    2) the particle size is so small you would need to wear a respirator when dealing with large quantity (unless you have some nice equipment for incorporating)

    Thickener options include:
    -gums (if your shampoo is not anionic you could use cationic guar)
     definitely cheap  but some of the sensory profiles can be unpleasant
    -Ritathix DOE (PEG-120 Methyl Glucose Dioleate, Methyl Gluceth-10)
    -Acrylates Copolymer and other acrylates are usually cheap, but can have issues in certain high salt systems

  • It is better to use combined methods for sulfate-free shampoos. For example, adding CDEA, Polyquat 10 (it has gum properties) and Crothix Liquid. For easier cases, Crothix alone would be sufficient. Crothix is liquid and is easy to work with
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    I am thinking of Using potassium Cocoate as an option in Sulfate frene Shampoo it mat solve the problem 
    OMG (speechless).
    PLEASE have someone who knows what they are doing formulate your shampoo.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Cafe33Cafe33 Member
    Aerosil 200 is expensive. I have used it experimentally and it thickens CAPB quite well. It also thickens and gels Sweet Almond Oil, Jojoba Oil, Macademia Nut Oil and makes clear solutions of these oils and others. 

    That being said, it is difficult to use without professional equipment and it is too expensive to use for something like shampoo. 
  • Belassi said:
    I am thinking of Using potassium Cocoate as an option in Sulfate frene Shampoo it mat solve the problem 
    OMG (speechless).
    PLEASE have someone who knows what they are doing formulate your shampoo.
    Potassium Cocoate used in soap I know but some formulators add it to surfactant blen in shampoo in low percentage, I am doing research regard many items and this is one of them 
  • JennycatJennycat Member
    For sulfate-free shampoo, AOS+CAPB/Hydroxysultine+Cocamide MIPA can be thickened by salt.

    I have also had success formulating sulfate-free shampoos thickened by cellulose thickeners and carbomers. One thing to note is cellulose thickeners can be instable to some surfactants and causes phase separations.
  • I choose beta in 15% + saudium lauroyl sarcosinate 5% + 5% decyl glycoside as surfactants ,, what do you think please advise 
  • EvenEven Member
    edited March 12
    You can try to use LATHANOL® LAL (stepan), it is anionic surfactant and good to be thickener for sulfate-free system.
  • Unknown Member
    Hi, can anybody help me ?

    I am newbie in Cosmetology.

    how to make oil base gel using carbopol 940 ?

    I hope you can help me.

  • EVchemEVchem Member
    @Rizbaig oil based gels have been mentioned on here in other discussions, try searching oil gel to see what ingredients you can use because carbopol will not work
  • Unknown Member
    Thanks EVchem for answer,
     I searched but failed to find gel formulation based on oil.
  • Chemist77Chemist77 Member, PCF student
    Ethocel 100 Premium from Dow and then check Croda
  • @AndrewSeel try CDEA 1%, PEG 150-distearate 1% and PEG/PPG-120/10 Trimethylolpropane Trioleate (and) Laureth-2 1% which is Arlypon TT from BASF. I have used this in a shampoo with NaLS 15% , Decyl glucoside 5% , Lauryl glucoside 5% and CAPB 5%.
  • @AndrewSeel try CDEA 1%, PEG 150-distearate 1% and PEG/PPG-120/10 Trimethylolpropane Trioleate (and) Laureth-2 1% which is Arlypon TT from BASF. I have used this in a shampoo with NaLS 15% , Decyl glucoside 5% , Lauryl glucoside 5% and CAPB 5%.
    I see that non-ionic surfactants like laurel glycoside and decyl glycoside strep off the hair, so it will dry the hair, I suggest 10% NaLS CAPB 10% Sodium cocoamphocitate 5%; HPMC 0.35%, Peg120 deoleate, CDEA 1%, am I right?
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