Simple green tea PHA exfoliating-hydrating gel :) - questioning myself lol

czkldczkld Member
edited February 25 in Starting a cosmetic line
Hello!
I am a beginner in cosmetic formulation. This is my first post. I put together this formula after soooome research. I am concerned about the preservatives not being able to support the formula, and if there are any conflicts here.

My formula:
  • Lactic buffer
  • Gluconolactone 5%
  • Sodium PCA 5%
  • Betaine 10%
  • Camellia Sinensis leaf extract 2%
  • Camellia Sinensis leaf powder 2%
  • Carrageenan Extract 3%
  • Allantoin 1%
  • Arginine 5%
  • Pentavitin 5%
  • Phenoxyethanol+Ethylhexylglycerin 1%
  • Sodium Benzoate+Potassium Sorbate 0,3%
pH4,5-5, Sodium Lactate q.s.

notes: eliminated niacinamide b/c of stability issues.

Comments

  • If you are making it for yourself, remove claim materials that are bug food and PE9010 alone is enough. Too much betaine, too much allantoin, it’s solubility in water is 0.5% anyway. Keep in mind gluconolactone is sticky on its own, don’t add more sticky materials.
  • Hey ngarayeva001! I was told that Betaine would reduce the stickiness. Should I add some Propanediol? 5% betaine and 5% propanediol in that case. Also I wanted to dissolve the Allantoin in the betaine (I was told that would help by my friend who’s a chemist and has their skincare brand). I also thought of adding BG for penetration enhancing, what are your thoughts?
  • czkldczkld Member
    edited February 25
    I found this paper https://www.in-cosmetics.com/__novadocuments/34292?v=635114705399500000 and when betaine was added to the water it was stable up to 1,4%!! Unfortunately it was 1:1 water to betaine but still I think it should help especially cause I want to heat it to 70c 
  • For Betaine, normally i'd only use a max of 5%, you can see the recommended range by Dupont, though they have test of about 4% or so mentioned in their marketing brochure. 

    For Pentavitin, some people might find it tacky as well, so it's best that you do a test on this ingredient by itself. 
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    edited February 26
    In my experience, tea extract is problematic for two reasons.
    1. It is an indicator. At pH >7 it is brownish-yellow. At pH <7 it turns pink. With that much it would be very coloured.
    2. It is not very stable. In my opinion shelf life = or < 3 months. I couldn't store the raw material for more than 3 months either, even at 3C.

    I no longer use it. Our one product that has it, I substituted pine bark extract (another indicator with similar colour response, but a lot more stable)

    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Other comments:
    Over preserved. The first combination alone should be adequate.
    More importantly, I do not see any logical physical result for this formula. Usually I can look at a formula and think, ok, w/o emulsion, or whatever, but this? I'm glad I am not the one spending money on ingredients to make whatever this is.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • czkldczkld Member
    edited February 26
    Belassi said:
    Other comments:
    Over preserved. The first combination alone should be adequate.
    More importantly, I do not see any logical physical result for this formula. Usually I can look at a formula and think, ok, w/o emulsion, or whatever, but this? I'm glad I am not the one spending money on ingredients to make whatever this is.
    I wanted this to be a hydrating and mildly exfoliating gel serum. I saw on other website, that phenoxyethanol itself isn’t enough for yeast and mold, hence the sodium benzoate. Tbh didn’t know about the betaine (my supplier said up to 10%, so I just maxed that out)
  • Belassi said:
    In my experience, tea extract is problematic for two reasons.
    1. It is an indicator. At pH >7 it is brownish-yellow. At pH <7 it turns pink. With that much it would be very coloured.
    2. It is not very stable. In my opinion shelf life = or < 3 months. I couldn't store the raw material for more than 3 months either, even at 3C.

    I no longer use it. Our one product that has it, I substituted pine bark extract (another indicator with similar colour response, but a lot more stable)

    I have EDTA and Gluconolactone, that’s for chelating so it doesn’t go bad, but maybe adding some antioxidants like BHA or BHT to make it more stable? I totally didn’t know it changes colour tho :O
  • !!!
    Hey! So I changed the formula a bit (your tips + other forms/groups/logs etc)
    • Buffer
    • Glycerin 2% (added)
    • Gluconolactone 5%
    • Sodium PCA 5%
    • Betaine 5% (reduced)
    • Green tea extract 0,5% (reduced)
    • Green tea leaf powder 1% (reduced) (sensorial/visual appeal)
    • Carrageenan 3%
    • Allantoin 0,5% (reduced)
    • Arginine 5%
    • Pentavitin 3,5% (reduced)
    • Sodium Benzoate+Potassium Sorbate 0,3%
    • Phenoxyethanol+Ethylhexylglycerin 1%
    • Disodium EDTA 0,02%
    • Sodium Lactate q.s.
    STILL included both preservatives, as phenoxyethanol is weak against mould/fungi and sodium benzoate Is weak against gram- bacteria

    I think that the Carrageenan will provide enough thickness, but I'll have to experiment.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    You're making your formula way too complicated, especially for someone who is new to formulating.

    Your first step should be to figure out why you are adding ingredients. Then simplify. Don't include ingredients that are having the same effect.

    For example, Glycerin is a humectant.  Sodium PCA is a humectant. Pentavitin is a humectant. Why would you add all of those? What difference are you expecting to notice? Don't add three ingredients when 1 will do.

    Here's what you should do, since you're a new formulator. 

    Simplify your formula.

    1.  Water
    2.  Glycerin
    3.  Preservative

    That's it. That's all you need.  Make this formula. Test it.
    Then decide what you don't like about.
    Determine what characteristics you want improved.

    Then add ONE ingredient to the formula to see what difference it makes. If you want to try Sodium PCA then add it to the simple formula. Test to see if there are any differences. If there aren't, then you know you don't need Sodium PCA. If there are, then keep it in there and use this as your new base formula.

    Formulating is not about putting every good ingredient you've ever read about into the mixture.  It's about slowly building a formula in a step-by-step, deliberative manner, testing and reworking until you get something that works the way you want it to.  

    Formulating is also learning about how to evaluate a product. Learn how things feel on or how they affect the skin. Learn how specific ingredients change the way formulas work. You can't learn this by starting out with a dozen ingredients.

    Keep it simple. 
    Learn.
    And then, and only then, make it a little more complicated.
  • @Perry thank you for your tips!! 

    So should this work: 
    Buffer
    Gluconolactone (my main Focus here)
    sodium pca
    carrageenan for thickening
    preservatives

  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @czkld - that is a much more reasonable starting place. Try it out and see where the formula could be improved after using it.

  • @Perry Sure!
  • I know that betaine slightly helps in dissolving Salicylic Acid (still a nightmare to dissolve). I haven't read anywhere if it helps to dissolve allantoin but it is worth trying.
  • czkld  Just curious, where do you source you Betaine from.  I started making lotion last year, and have had a difficult time finding a reasonably priced supplier for that ingredient.  (FYI:  I use it at 3% in my lotions.)
    Thanx!
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited February 26
    By the way, getting back to the preservatives, although I think Sodium Benzoate+Potassium Sorbate is a bad solution, as the pH might shift, PE9010 alone will not be enough. My bad, I said above it is. There are plenty of broad-spectrum preservatives that are sold by repackagers.

    Perry is co-running course with Swiftcraftymonkey and Makingskincare. Makingskincare has plenty of good information including this article on preservatives which could be useful.

    https://makingskincare.com/preservatives/
  • @Graillotion beautyever.pl (im located in Poland thats why)
  • @ngarayeva001 thanks for the tips :) 
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