What's wrong with formula

AdaAda Member
edited February 9 in Formulating
Please, tell me what's wrong with this formula? I wanted to make water based moisturizing cream-gel (like Loreal's Hydra Genius) with rose hydrolate, but the cream turned out to be too liquid and poorly absorbed into the skin

Distilled water                            67.7%
Rose hydrolate                           10%
Glycerine                                      5%
Caprylic/capric triglyceride      5%
Sorbitol                                        7%
DL-tocopherol                             0.3%
Retinyl acetate                            1%
Ascorbic acid                              1%
Vitamin E acetate                       1%
Hyaluronic acid                           0.5%
Xanthan gum                               0.3%
Sodium gluconate                      0.2%
Phenoxyethanol                          0.5%
Caprylyl glycol                             0.4%
Sorbic acid                                   0.1%

Comments

  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    The problem is that you aren't using the right ingredients.  "Rose hydrolate" is really just water with maybe some odor molecules in there. https://www.amphora-aromatics.com/natural-skin-care/natural-toners/floral-waters/organic-rose-water-hydrolate-200ml-info  But it doesn't have any real effect.

    Essentially, you've made a formula with Water, Glycerin, Sorbitol, HA, Xanthan gum, and preservative. You probably don't have enough Xanthan gum. Go to 0.5%

    But here are the ingredients of the formula you are trying to emulate. They use Carbomer as the thickener. 

    AQUA/WATER
    GLYCERIN
    ALCOHOL DENAT.
    DIMETHICONE
    ISONONYL ISONONANOATE
    SILANETRIOL
    CARBOMER
    TRIETHANOLAMINE
    DIMETHICONOL
    ALOE BARBADENSIS LEAF JUICE
    SODIUM HYALURONATE
    SILICA DIMETHYL SILYLATE
    HYALURONIC ACID
    PHYLLOSTACHYS BAMBUSOIDES EXTRACT
    CAPRYLYL GLYCOL
    TETRASODIUM EDTA
    CITRIC ACID
    BIOSACCHARIDE GUM-1
    XANTHAN GUM
    PANTHENOL
    MENTHOXYPROPANEDIOL
    ETHYLHEXYL PALMITATE
    BUTYLENE GLYCOL
    HEXYLENE GLYCOL
    TOCOPHEROL
    POTASSIUM SORBATE
    SORBIC ACID
    METHYLPARABEN
    SODIUM BENZOATE
    PHENOXYETHANOL
    CHLORPHENESIN
    CI 42090/BLUE 1
    LINALOOL
    LIMONENE
    PARFUM/FRAGRANCE


  • AdaAda Member
    Thank you for your response @Perry

    This is a too long list of ingredients and unfortunately I don't have such an assortment of substances. Is it possible to somehow defuse this list without affecting the quality of the product?

  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Well, let's see. You could probably make something that works pretty much the same with...

    AQUA/WATER
    GLYCERIN
    DIMETHICONE
    ISONONYL ISONONANOATE
    CARBOMER
    TRIETHANOLAMINE
    CAPRYLYL GLYCOL
    TETRASODIUM EDTA
    CITRIC ACID
    XANTHAN GUM
    METHYLPARABEN
    PHENOXYETHANOL
    Color
    Fragrance

  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited February 9
    Are oils dispersed physically within the gel network here? 
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    edited February 9
    Yes. It's a carbomer cream. First thing I copied, 8 years ago. Evelyn & Crabtree hand cream with organic shea. 
    940 gives a sensorial pretty much indistinguishable from the original.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Belassi said:
    Yes. It's a carbomer cream. First thing I copied, 8 years ago. Evelyn & Crabtree hand cream with organic shea. 
    940 gives a sensorial pretty much indistinguishable from the original.
    How do carbomer creams compare to those with a proper emulsifier?
  • From the consumer point of view, it is hard to tell the difference. From a production point of view, there's rarely if ever a failure of a carbomer emulsion. The downside from my point of view is that I lack a temperature-stabilised pouring system, which makes the carbomer cream more difficult to handle as it tends to thicken just at the temperature you want to pour at. I use a thermos-style dispenser so as not to lose temperature too quickly.
    A second consideration is, at the temperatures you'd want to add actives and certain preservatives, the cream is already 'set'. So it doesn't suit all creams.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • AdaAda Member
    Thank you @Belassi. Is it possible to do without carbomer? e.g. by enhancing concentration of xanthan gum
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    edited February 10
    @Ada - you've seen what happens when you try to do it without Carbomer.  The problem with xanthan gum is the more you add, the slimier it gets.

  • AdaAda Member
    yes, you're right @Peryy
  • AdaAda Member
    I'll try this formula with carbomer. 

     I have propylene glycol. Is it worth adding it to this cream for better moisturizing effect?
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    edited February 10
    Glycerin is already a humectant which is what Propylene Glycol is. However, PG is less sticky so you could reduce the stickiness of the formula substituting out some Glycerin for PG.
  • AdaAda Member
    The cream is very "dry",  doesn't get through the skin and moiturize it, so cannot be useful for dry skin, which was the essential aim :/
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Without an occlusive agent like Petrolatum or Dimethicone in your formula, it's not going to be terribly effective for dry skin.
  • Ada said:
    Thank you @Belassi. Is it possible to do without carbomer? e.g. by enhancing concentration of xanthan gum
    You could try 0.25% xanthan gum and 0.25% guar gum. Xanthan gum works synergistically with different kinds of gums without the snotty texture.
  • There are also different grades of xanthan gum that have different viscosities/ properties if you can get your hands on them. Something like Keltrol CG-SFT  can be used to produce lower viscosity but smoother  formula
  • AdaAda Member
    edited February 13
    Thank you all very much :) You helped me a lot
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    in my experience, low acyl gellan gum can form very carbomer-like gels at low concentrations - the relatively minor down side is that it can be more fiddly to work with than carbomer
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
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