What's wrong with our shampoo formulation?

AlexiaJoanAlexiaJoan Member
edited January 11 in Hair
Hi! I'm Jo and I'm new in this field. But we have a cosmetic company that's been running for almost 30yrs now. I would just like to know if you could help me with this formulation? We are not so familiar with formulating a 2-in-1 shampoo because mostly our products are for skincare. The shampoo keeps separating and formula is unstable and we want more conditioning effect on the hair. Hope you could help me with this. Thank you so much! 

SLES - 9.0

Cocamidopropyl betaine - 7.0

P-39 - 3.0

P-7 - 4.0

Guar Gum - 1.0

Glycerin - 2.0

Preservative - .08

Pearlizer - .80

Silsoft AM2200C - 5.5

Propylene Glycol - 3.0

Sodium EDTA - 1.0

Aqua - q.s.

Nacl 20% Sol'n - 12.0

Citric Acid 10% Sol'n - 3.0

Fragrance - 8.5




Comments

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    It seems to me that it contains an awful lot of polyquats and fragrance... really a lot of fragrance!
    Maybe add a silicone or fatty alcohol? But that's just a wild guess, Perry and alike have way more experience and knowledge regarding shampoo than I will ever have ;) .
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @Pharma - you're right 8% fragrance!!?  That's about 7% too much.
    Also, polyquats work at level below 1%.
    Reducing the fragrance may fix the separation problem. But it's hard to say because it's not clear what is separating.  Is the pearl separating or is it a slug of fragrance oil that is separating out?

  • 1. Is that 9% active SLES, or 9% as supplied (usually 70%)?
    2. Is that cationic guar gum? If not, drop it.
    3. Why propylene glycol?
    4. Drop the glycerin.
    5. It seems to have way too much salt, especially since you already have CAPB to thicken it.
    6. Way too much EDTA. 0.1% is enough.
    7. Don't just blindly add citric acid. Aim for a target pH.
    8. Way too much polyquaterniums.
  • Hi @Pharma @Perry! Thanks for the advice. Yeah we're also thinking about that, way too much fragrance. But the client wants to have a strong fragrance like dove shampoo. Do you have any suggestions of how can we make the fragrance stronger without making the fragance at 8.5%? and do we have to remove one of the polyquats? Thanks again!
  • bil7bil7 Member
    You can check synthalen w 400 for resolving your separation issue high suspension low viscosity suspending agent like zinc pyrithione dimethicone we used it mostly and eliminate guar gum.
    Poly 7 is cheap much better for slipperyness also can used poly 10 eliminate poly 39.
    Another option for jaguar c 13s.
    Or you can also put some aloveragel 2 percent for safe side depends on your formulation.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    I think you need to find a better fragrance. When I worked on the Tresemme shampoo, we had a nice smelling, strong enough fragrance that worked using 0.5%.  Even dove shampoo probably uses less than 1% fragrance.
  • Is your customer concern about the fragrance staying on the hair? Is that why you are using an absurdly high level of fragrance? If so your selection of fragrance needs to change. 
  • @Perry the pearlizer keeps separating, do you think it's the polyquat?
  • Gunther said:
    1. Is that 9% active SLES, or 9% as supplied (usually 70%)?
    2. Is that cationic guar gum? If not, drop it.
    3. Why propylene glycol?
    4. Drop the glycerin.
    5. It seems to have way too much salt, especially since you already have CAPB to thicken it.
    6. Way too much EDTA. 0.1% is enough.
    7. Don't just blindly add citric acid. Aim for a target pH.
    8. Way too much polyquaterniums.
    Thanks for the advice Gunther, we'll make a trial today. What's the ideal percentage of polyquats for shampoo? 
  • bil7 said:
    You can check synthalen w 400 for resolving your separation issue high suspension low viscosity suspending agent like zinc pyrithione dimethicone we used it mostly and eliminate guar gum.
    Poly 7 is cheap much better for slipperyness also can used poly 10 eliminate poly 39.
    Another option for jaguar c 13s.
    Or you can also put some aloveragel 2 percent for safe side depends on your formulation.
    Thank you @bil7, what percentage should we put for the synthalen w 400? 

    We'll do a trial today. Thanks again 😊
  • Perry said:
    I think you need to find a better fragrance. When I worked on the Tresemme shampoo, we had a nice smelling, strong enough fragrance that worked using 0.5%.  Even dove shampoo probably uses less than 1% fragrance.
    We'll make the fragrance .8% will that be enough? 
  • Cafe33 said:
    Is your customer concern about the fragrance staying on the hair? Is that why you are using an absurdly high level of fragrance? If so your selection of fragrance needs to change. 
    Yeah, i think we have to find a better supplier for the fragrance. Thank you! 
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Only you can decide whether 0.8% is enough fragrance.
  • bil7bil7 Member
    bil7 said:
    You can check synthalen w 400 for resolving your separation issue high suspension low viscosity suspending agent like zinc pyrithione dimethicone we used it mostly and eliminate guar gum.
    Poly 7 is cheap much better for slipperyness also can used poly 10 eliminate poly 39.
    Another option for jaguar c 13s.
    Or you can also put some aloveragel 2 percent for safe side depends on your formulation.
    Thank you @bil7, what percentage should we put for the synthalen w 400? 

    We'll do a trial today. Thanks again 😊
    Yes you can add synthalen w 400 from .5 percent to 1 percent will sort you .
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