Micellar Cleansing Water

I want to make a Micellar Cleansing Water product with ingredients SAFEELIA CW-300 (Glycerin/Pentylene Glycol/Caprylyl & Capryl Glucoside/Lauryl Glucoside/Polyglyceryl-10 Laureate/Sodium Hydroxypropylsulfonate Laurylglucoside Crosspolymer/1,2-Hexanediol), PEG-8 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides, Propanediol, Glycerin, Panthenol and preservatives. My question is how is Micellar Water and Water different? What can I do to make this makeup remover more effective? Is it Micellar Water if I add a little thickener?

Comments

  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Water is nothing but water.
    Micellar water has surfactants in it that helps to remove oil.
    Use a higher level of surfactant to make the makeup remover more effective.
    Micellar water is a marketing term, not a scientific term. You can call whatever you want micellar water. The only question is whether your consumers believe it.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Perry said:
    ...
    Micellar water is a marketing term, not a scientific term. You can call whatever you want micellar water. The only question is whether your consumers believe it.
    Not quite; sure, micellar water is mostly used as marketing term but it is also a scientific one. Every surfactant in water, at a given minimum concentration (critical micelle concentration aka CMC), builds micelles. This is one of three (?) feature which makes a surfactant a surfactant (notably, most non-polymeric emulsifiers have the same features and also form micelles but these have simply lower HLB values).
    The water in your lavatory or your bathtub is, scientifically speaking, micellar water once you added enough soap, shampoo or washing agent to form the first bubbles.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    You're right, I wasn't precise enough. While it is a marketing term, if you start with the notion that micellar water is a solution that contains micelles then there has to be some minimum level of surfactant to be able to call something a micellar water.
  • Is that "micellar water" meant to be rinsed off?

    If its is, then Panthenol and Glycerin can be removed (or reduced to claim ingredient levels 0.1-0.01%) as they'll do nothing useful and just end up in the drain.
    It it's not then be careful as glucosides can leave a sticky afterfeel (they even leave a sticky feel in rinse off applications).
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Generally, Micellar Waters are not intended to be rinsed off.  Rather, applied with a cotton ball or sponge as a leave-on cleanser.  They also generally contain just a touch of surfactant, in the 1% to 2% range.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • Generally, Micellar Waters are not intended to be rinsed off.  Rather, applied with a cotton ball or sponge as a leave-on cleanser.  They also generally contain just a touch of surfactant, in the 1% to 2% range.
    Thanks mark. I see a market product like what you say EAU FRAICHE DOUCEUR Micellar Cleansing Water. This product, it advertises no need to rinse with water. I tried makeup remover with lipstick, it still works well. I think it is a very good support step for facial cleanser.
  • Pharma said:
    Perry said:
    ...
    Micellar water is a marketing term, not a scientific term. You can call whatever you want micellar water. The only question is whether your consumers believe it.
    Not quite; sure, micellar water is mostly used as marketing term but it is also a scientific one. Every surfactant in water, at a given minimum concentration (critical micelle concentration aka CMC), builds micelles. This is one of three (?) feature which makes a surfactant a surfactant (notably, most non-polymeric emulsifiers have the same features and also form micelles but these have simply lower HLB values).
    The water in your lavatory or your bathtub is, scientifically speaking, micellar water once you added enough soap, shampoo or washing agent to form the first bubbles.
    Thank you. You explained very well.
  • Gunther said:
    Is that "micellar water" meant to be rinsed off?

    If its is, then Panthenol and Glycerin can be removed (or reduced to claim ingredient levels 0.1-0.01%) as they'll do nothing useful and just end up in the drain.
    It it's not then be careful as glucosides can leave a sticky afterfeel (they even leave a sticky feel in rinse off applications).
    Thank you for your review. I think it is also a problem I need to check with panthanol, and glycerine. I think glycerine and glycol, it has good solubility. It helps to remove a few things. I think it's necessary
  • Perry said:
    Water is nothing but water.
    Micellar water has surfactants in it that helps to remove oil.
    Use a higher level of surfactant to make the makeup remover more effective.
    Micellar water is a marketing term, not a scientific term. You can call whatever you want micellar water. The only question is whether your consumers believe it.
    Thank you. I think I have to check the surfactant concentration. As @Mark's comment, it's pretty cool. Interestingly, I have more ideas for my products
  • AzizAziz Member
    Gunther said:
    Is that "micellar water" meant to be rinsed off?

    If its is, then Panthenol and Glycerin can be removed (or reduced to claim ingredient levels 0.1-0.01%) as they'll do nothing useful and just end up in the drain.
    It it's not then be careful as glucosides can leave a sticky afterfeel (they even leave a sticky feel in rinse off applications).
    Miceller water is.not a rines off water .  It is a leave on water , It is used to remove oily make up from face without rines off , so Panthenol or any other moisturiseres may be usued for soothing effect . 
    @Perry In miceller water , some oil or fragrance dissolved in excess amount of a solubuliser agent like polysorbat 20 etc. This excess amount of solubuliser remove oil based make up from face . 

  • A random question to the experts: why the majority of commercial micellar waters have poloxamers (or PEG-6 C/C glycerides) as main surfactants? The first ones are less gentle on eyes and the latter is extremely bitter (it maters when you use it to remove lipstick). There are wonderful and cheap polysorbates without above listed issues and they cleanse well. What’s the deal with polaxomers?
  • A random question to the experts: why the majority of commercial micellar waters have poloxamers (or PEG-6 C/C glycerides) as main surfactants? The first ones are less gentle on eyes and the latter is extremely bitter (it maters when you use it to remove lipstick). There are wonderful and cheap polysorbates without above listed issues and they cleanse well. What’s the deal with polaxomers?
    I wonder if that's because poloxamers reportedly become slightly gel-like at body temperature and liquid at room temperature.
    They don't fully gel in micellar waters because they're used in at low concentrations

    Other than that I can't think another reason why they're used. We'll have to wait to see what the more knowledgeable guys say about it.

    An important characteristic of poloxamer solutions is their temperature dependent self-assembling and thermo-gelling behavior. Concentrated aqueous solutions of poloxamers are liquid at low temperature and form a gel at higher temperature in a reversible process.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poloxamer#Micellization_and_phase_transitions
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Poloxamers are used both a surfactants and to give body to the micellar water when applied to the face so it is not runny ... it double-purposes as a surfactant and thickener.  PEG-6 C/C glycerides are used as solubilizers to remove oil from the face.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • A random question to the experts: why the majority of commercial micellar waters have poloxamers (or PEG-6 C/C glycerides) as main surfactants? The first ones are less gentle on eyes and the latter is extremely bitter (it maters when you use it to remove lipstick). There are wonderful and cheap polysorbates without above listed issues and they cleanse well. What’s the deal with polaxomers?
    Interesting point.
    I thought the same thing too.

    Which polysorbate would you use and why?

    I read that SPAN (Tween/polysorbate younger cousins) may work better than polysorbates do, and Tween/Span combinations would be even better to remove makeup.
  • I like polysorbate 80. It’s Old but gold. I am very fussy about eye tingling and like water resistant makeup (which doesn’t help). Polysorbate 80 is very gentle on eyes. I use it in both oil cleanser (poly 80, alkyl benzoate and a little bit of Cithrol 10 gtis) and micellar water. I don’t see much difference in performance between 1.5% of PEG-6 cc glycerides and poly 80 in a micellar water. 
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