suspension issue with sulfate free formula

chemfoxchemfox Member
edited November 14 in Hair
Hi all,
appreciate your help on this, after few days of making the product i see he gum settling down. im trying to create a transparent ( semi transparent) sulfate free formula. . here is it below.
Trade name/ Ingredient Name
% w/w
Demineralised water . 41.9
Coconut water . 5
sodium gluconate . 0.2
Polyquaternium 10 .   0.5
guar gum  .   0.2
propaleindiol 1-3 .       3


Sodium cocoyl isethionate (85% active) (Hostapon SCI-85) .   5

Sodium lauryl sulfoacetate (65% active) (Lathanol LAL) SLSA .  5

Decyl Glucoside (53%) .  5
Peg 7 cocyl glycerate .   2
coconut oil .  0.7
lavender frag .  0.5
Tocopherol - d-alpha 70% .  0.2

Polyquaternium 7 .  5
peg 150 disterate .     1.5

Phenoxyethanol, Ethylhexylglycerin (iscagaurd PEHG) .    0.8
Allantoin .    1
Dl panthenol liquid .     1
Cocamidopropyl Betaine (30% surfactant) CAPB .    16
Glycerin .   5
Xanthan gum .   0.5

Im happy with the results other wise, just need to get rid of the suspension.


Comments

  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited November 14
    You will never make that transparent leave aside stable. Even if it looks ok now, you will get sediment and loss of viscosity at some point.
    1) SCI is not designed to be used at 5% in a liquid product. It would only work as part of a commercially made blend. Solution: replace with Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate.
    2) You have too many unnecessary claim ingredients that do not add any benefits to a rinse-off product. Solution: remove all of that coconut water, oil, allantoin, panthenol, tocopherol, propanediol, etc. Create a stable prototype, and only then add them back (at a minimum %).
    3) Is that peg 150 disterate from makingcosmetics that you need to melt? It's very hard to work with. I am not saying it's bad or wrong thickener for this formula, but if you can, use Crothix Liquid instead.
    4) The preservative you are using is not the best for surfactant products. Phenoxyethanol can have a very negative impact on viscosity. Solution: for surfactant products nothing can beat Germall Plus (in my humble opinion).
    5) Although there is nothing wrong with sulfates and SLSa is on the mild side, it is still a sulfate.
  • This is an example of well working stable sulfate-free and very cost-efficient formula:

    INCI %
    a- Aqua 44.9%
    a- Disodium EDTA 0.2%
    a- Germall plus powder 0.2%
    a- Glycerin 2.0%
    a- Polyquat 10 0.5%
    b- Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate 35.0%
    b- Decyl Glucoside 3.0%
    b- Fragrance 0.7%
    c- Polyquat 7 0.5%
    c- PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate 1.5%
    c-CAPB 10.0%
    c- Crothix 1.5%
    c- Citric Acid qs

    Polyquat 10 should be slurried in glycerin and added to water.
    Fragrance (and oils at a small amount) should be added directly to Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate. In my experience, this particular surfactant can solubilise up to 1.5% of oils without any extra solubilisers (the second best option is SLES).
    CAPB should be added in the very end. Mix all ingredients in phase a, separately mix all ingredients in phase b, mix a and b together and add c one by one.
    It responds to NaCl but not much. 
    It's a cold process and it takes 20 minutes to make 1 lt.
    No gums are needed at all.
  • I would just like to add, having viscosity build issues myself with a sulfate-free formula (different surfactant blend altogether), guar gum was giving me problems.  Is it actually guar gum or Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride?  If it's the latter it will fight with the xanthan gum (there are many types of xanthan gum) the Guar Hydrox...  is cationic and the xanthan gum is ionic.  I would remove the xanthan gum and replace with  Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Ashland has Bencel K200M and Univar has Methocel 40-1010 PCG.  If your guar gum is actually guar gum you can try leaving it in, but you may have to remove.  I personally like guar gum because of its silky feel.
  • You will never make that transparent leave aside stable. Even if it looks ok now, you will get sediment and loss of viscosity at some point.
    1) SCI is not designed to be used at 5% in a liquid product. It would only work as part of a commercially made blend. Solution: replace with Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate.
    2) You have too many unnecessary claim ingredients that do not add any benefits to a rinse-off product. Solution: remove all of that coconut water, oil, allantoin, panthenol, tocopherol, propanediol, etc. Create a stable prototype, and only then add them back (at a minimum %).
    3) Is that peg 150 disterate from makingcosmetics that you need to melt? It's very hard to work with. I am not saying it's bad or wrong thickener for this formula, but if you can, use Crothix Liquid instead.
    4) The preservative you are using is not the best for surfactant products. Phenoxyethanol can have a very negative impact on viscosity. Solution: for surfactant products nothing can beat Germall Plus (in my humble opinion).
    5) Although there is nothing wrong with sulfates and SLSa is on the mild side, it is still a sulfate.
    Thanks for ur suggestions, I did use just the water.
    preservative i just have DMDMh,  geogard ultra, may be ill try any of those.

     dont have Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate. have been waiting to get my hand on it..

    Shall work on removing the addatives and add them later.
  • chemfoxchemfox Member
    edited December 2
    @ngarayeva001 - Thanks the Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate i have is in powder form n says 95% asm and has a very bad chemically stink to it. Do you recommend a smaller usage ? of dilute it and use. Im trying to keep the asm of overall formula to 11-12.
  • jjciii said:
    I would just like to add, having viscosity build issues myself with a sulfate-free formula (different surfactant blend altogether), guar gum was giving me problems.  Is it actually guar gum or Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride?  If it's the latter it will fight with the xanthan gum (there are many types of xanthan gum) the Guar Hydrox...  is cationic and the xanthan gum is ionic.  I would remove the xanthan gum and replace with  Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Ashland has Bencel K200M and Univar has Methocel 40-1010 PCG.  If your guar gum is actually guar gum you can try leaving it in, but you may have to remove.  I personally like guar gum because of its silky feel.
    True i too like guar gum, xanthan gum is Fs grade. but it gives a pretty sticky feel
  • @chemfox, olefin sulfonate comes as powder (bio-terge AS90) and liquid (bio-terge AS40) with asm around 40%. I only used AS90 in a syndet so don’t know whether it will work for liquid product. 
  • okay, so let me try making a dilution at 40% and se how that goes, Thanks again
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