Emulsifiers... cus I've lost my damn mind

Hey guys!

I'm still working on the same recipe. I've done a ton of research and was hoping you guys could look at what I'm doing and just tell me if I'm doing anything wrong (also... not totally sure if I got the placement of ingredients right... but when you're working with mixed ingredients... what do ya do?).

Since I posted last this is what I ended up with:
Theobroma grandiflorum (Cupuacu) Seed Butter, Aqua (Water), Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt), Orbignya Oleifera (Babassu) Seed Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Methylsulfonylmethane (OptiMSM), Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Zinc Oxide (Non-Nano), Virola Sebifer (Ucuuba) Seed Butter, Cannabis Sativa (Hemp) Extract, Cetearyl Olivate, Cholecalciferol (Vitamin D3), Daucus Carota Sativa (Carrot) Seed Oil, Hippophae Rhamnoides (Sea Buckthorn) Fruit Oil, Squalane, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Wax, Glycerin, Caprylhydroxamic Acid, Avena Sativa (Oat Kernel) Extract, Sorbitan Olivate, Cannabis Sativa (Hemp) Seed Oil, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Allantoin, Glyceryl Caprylate, Tochopherol (Vitamin E), Bambusa Vulgaris (Bamboo) Extract, Curcuma Longa (Turmeric) Essential Oil, Zingiber Officinale (Ginger) Essential Oil

I'm looking at changing the emulsifier (Cetearyl Olivate/Sorbitan Olivate @ 2.65%) with Glyceryl Monostearate (perhaps also Glyceryl Oleate). Glyceryl Monostearate has a *sellable* "purpose" (idk, they say it's good for reducing post work-out fatigue/ache? Who knows if that's even true... maybe I just like trying out new ingredients?).
I was also looking at replacing the wax @ 1.76% with Boswellia Sacra (Frankincense) Resin - sounded like this was the safest form of Frankincense and there's not really any information to suggest it causes irritation or allergy but I kinda feel like this is a bit high? I did a run with White Lotus Wax, but it's expensive and hard to find and everything that's accessible is... of course, a known contact allergen (I was really disappointed with lavender). Also adding four steam distilled essential oils: Leptospermum Scoparium, Vetiveria Zizanioides, Matricaria Chamomilla, Calendula Officinalis.

I've considered scrapping several parts of this (oats, aloe, bamboo, allatoin) - but some add to the interest of the product (especially as I am running gluten-free claims using Montana Gluten-Free Oats (thus why it's an extract now...). As we can see there's so many skin soothers I just went nuts. On the bright side: not a single tester had any problems with the test batch. There was one complaint about grit. There's no way that I didn't have enough water to dissolve... but I may have applied too much heat - either way, I increased the glycerin content (hopefully no one notices, lol) and be a little more gentle with the water phase next time. I suppose I could also try tempering it more... but it really seems like two cool down + blend should be enough. Though perhaps a blender wasn't my best choice and I should be using an immersion blender? (Maybe eventually I'll get something fancy but this it what I'm working with). I did add more water to make up the water loss - I did add this as room temperature distilled water.
I figure if I can't get this to go away (/need a stronger solvent), I might market it as dermabrasion (I am marketing this for Psoriasis, and we did see a reduction in thickness of plaques in the test group... albiet, VERY SMALL test group (I'm making this at home, don't expect too much from me, k?)) and call it a day. ?
I magically avoided every ingredient poo-pooed by EWG (I have a level of frustration...) and pulled off also missing every known contact allergen. The only thing that's possibly irritating is the ginger EO... but it smells so much better with it in it, so I'm keeping it!

Also, my preservative (Caprylhydroxamic acid/glyceryl caprylate/glycerin) is at 1.15% (excluding the extra glycerin which is taking up about 1.5%). The entire water phase should... theoretically be completely used up with minerals + extracts to the glycerin. Wonder if this is too much and I could or should drop it down (suggested use 1-1.2%, so I'm right in there obviously).

pH came out to 5.5... just perfect but I'm not sure if more essential oils will throw that off (each one will be no more than 0.5%)

If I've totally lost it, feel free to thwack me.

Thanks for your time and thoughts. I appreciate it.



Comments

  • ZafZaf Member
    Sorry: GLYCEROL Monostearate... because apparently I'm making ice cream now. ?
  • ZafZaf Member
    edited October 2019
    Also: can something like triglycerides or glycerol monostearate be used to improve the stability of anhydrous recipes during shipping (whipped body butter specifically)?
    I know a lot of people use gums, starches, ect for this purpose... I just don't love adding carbohydrates to a body butter unless it'll adding something.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    edited October 2019
    Zaf said:
    ...
    I'm looking at changing the emulsifier (Cetearyl Olivate/Sorbitan Olivate @ 2.65%) with Glyceryl Monostearate (perhaps also Glyceryl Oleate). Glyceryl Monostearate has a *sellable* "purpose" (idk, they say it's good for reducing post work-out fatigue/ache? Who knows if that's even true... maybe I just like trying out new ingredients?).
    I was also looking at replacing the wax @ 1.76% with Boswellia Sacra (Frankincense) Resin - sounded like this was the safest form of Frankincense and there's not really any information to suggest it causes irritation or allergy but I kinda feel like this is a bit high?
    ...
    pH came out to 5.5... just perfect but I'm not sure if more essential oils will throw that off (each one will be no more than 0.5%)
    ...
    can something like triglycerides or glycerol monostearate be used to improve the stability of anhydrous recipes during shipping
    ...
    Cetearyl olivate is not an emulsifier, it's "synthetic" wax similar to jojoba oil.
    Glyceryl monostearate (sometimes called glycerol monostearate) might do that if eaten. In the skin, it's just a low HLB emulsifier and an emollient.
    Boswellia resin is not a wax but a resin and it will feel different. Might add to the grittiness (depending on quality). Shouldn't cause irritation but rather reduce it (good anti-inflammatory activity). Although my guess is that zinc oxide causes grittiness. Use higher speed or a three roll mill (probably just use zinc oxide with 3-4 parts of one of your butters in the mill for easier handling or spread it out on a glass plate to obtain a fine, homogeneous paste).
    Essential oils don't affect pH. They might however affect rheology/viscosity.
    Hydrogenated oils (=solid triglycerides) or glyceryl monostearate (BTW food grade is usually >95% pure whilst cosmetic grade is often ~40% monostearate and ~55% distearate) at sufficient levels act as oil gelling agents and hence may increase zero shear viscosity and ergo shipping stability without reducing spreadability too much. But that highly depends on % and composition.

    PS I like your recipe ;) .
  • ZafZaf Member
    edited October 2019
    I've actually never had a problem with grit from the zinc oxide (and I have been using it as kinda a staple ingredient for about two years). I do find that it mixes better if I essentially blend it with a small amount of liquid oil to make essentially a paste them slowly add more ingredients till it's fully encorporated. (I mean, obviously you gotta whip the heck out of it... I also add it slowly to try and mix it powdery, not clumped)
    I actually ran across some stuff that suggested Magnesium Sulfate might do this with too quick of cooling. Last batch I was in a bit of a rush to get the cool down done so I could test thickness. I may have put it in the fridge for 15 minutes. I'm so used to doing this with body butters because it works so well, probably a terrible idea with something with a mineral content like I'm using (magnesium is still 10%, MSM is 5%).
    I listed the Cetearyl Olivate as emulsifier because it comes with the Sorbitan Olivate as an emulsifying wax. Thanks for letting me know it's just a wax/fixative. I guess that gives me a better idea of how I can trade out that component of I feel like it. Yeah, I did get the impression that the way Glycerol Monostearate works is specifically that it draws and distributes fluids... so that makes it a humuclant technically?
    I am looking currently at Frankincense Resin made for internal/medicinal use (I am not sure people should eat it... but people eat Neem oil and call it medicine and throw themselves in the ER with hypoglycemia and encephalitis... so... whatever). I figure this is going to be the cleanest. I'm also more than willing to filter it myself if that's needed. Unfortunately for me, the lotus wax I bought had sediment in it so I had to filter that before using as well (ugh).
    Thanks for your knowledge! I figured I'd use triglycerides/ect at something like 1-2%. Hopefully enough to add body without diluting the other ingredients too much. Not totally sure what I'll reduce to make room for it, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I really liked that Glycerol Monostearate seems like it can be used without heating. I'm trying to protect the polyphenols in the olive oil I'm using so adding something that can basically work for cold-emulsion or a binder without adding heat would be excellent --- I'm also ok with adding hydrogenated oils, they won't detract from the moisturizing properties so it seems a reasonable addition for a little more stability when the summer months come back around.
    And thanks for the compliment! ? I put a fair amount of work and effort into this one. Still not perfect but we'll get there. I have to wonder how many times I'll switch things around before I'm done. ?
  • ZafZaf Member
    And, yes, I understand that Resin and Wax are not the same. They're both fixatives though and that's the main quality I'm looking at there - that and there's more potential medicinal/Anti-Inflammatory properties there than is in sunflower wax (I mean... this is basically a hydrogenated oil isn't it).
  • ZafZaf Member
    edited October 2019

    And figured I could do something like this - provided I can find a reliable source for the tears.
    Yes, I'm once again wanting to try things that maybe are a bit beyond my depth. It's the fun of learning through experience.
    Hey, you think if I make a glue with the texture of whipped cream and the scent of an apothecary people would buy it?
    I jest... but I really do enjoy just playing with this stuff. I bought Pequi oil for the f*** of it and just... wow, fruit and liquor with the texture of a very soft Mango butter... what the hell am I going to do with this? ?
    I think a little extra moisture barrier would be nice (it was very light in the test batch... but then I also don't want it to be sticky and overbearing like lanolin... eesh).

    The dry feel of the recipe was very well received though... so who knows, maybe that's what my target clientel want...
    but considering what recipes have been getting attention - I think I've got the market that are interested in simple ingredients they can understand. I worked really hard to cut the ingredients to separate out odd-looking ingredients for some eye-appeal.
    I dunno, I already look at this stuff like I'm making food. I know the way I read a menu and I'm kinda hoping people will look at the ingredients and kinda salivate.
    I really liked it... but I made it so... kinda partial. The emulsifier pushed it right over the top. It came out amazing and creamy - not a bit of waxiness to it. I did feel like the magnesium absorbed better in a w/o emulsion though and that just may be about how the water absorbs when it's suspended in droplets rather than... I think Sorbitan Olivate is supposed to create a mesh network? (Emulsifiers are weird... but not as weird as that one time I read an article on Portland Cement for no reason than curiosity about what magnesium complexes do)

    Ok. You've had enough of my encentricity for one post. I hope you guys are well. ?
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