Replacement for Calcium Carbonate in Natural Tootpaste

Hi everyone

Huge thanks to Perry, creator of this website for obviously teaching me the basics of chemistry. I have been dabbling with natural toothpaste for the last year and up until now looked at a way of perhaps selling.

My first test to sell was calcium citrate as base along with HCO3 of soda, xylitol, oil, water, frothing agents and also a stabilizer + lovely lovely essential oils. Came out okay.

I used calcium citrate because it was what I had at that time. Little did I know, and do I still know about the different calcium powders including that I would not find calcium carbonate as I’d hoped to in South Africa. (Min 25KG, 25 company queries)

My next step is to try find a “base” replacement which does not have a terrible taste like the clay family to replace calcium carb. Remember I’m only a beginner.

Using calcium citrate perhaps or dimitacious earth( food grade of-course ) .....can this be possible? 

An ex-chemical engineer told me that citrate is a no no. Why??? It came out ok? I don’t understand ...

Of-course I’d be utmost grateful for your ingenious insight into the world of chemicals . Thank you so much for help in the right direction.

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Comments

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Calcium carbonate is used to raise pH (acidity is the worst thing for teeth) which it does very gently due to its minimal water solubility. Using trisodium citrate will also raise pH but being highly soluble will do so in a more aggressive manner and along the way, will liquefy the product.
    The second reason why calcium carbonate is added is its use as abrasive and consistency agent. Diatomaceous earth would work as a replacement here, depending on quality.
  • Aaagh thank you for your reply.  :) 

    On the topic regarding Diatomaceous earth. The colour is a medium poo-colour >.< Is there such a thing as white DM? (Mine is food grade). My product is also now a PH of around 4...depending on what I can find to "double" the ph I might have to look into using Zeolite. 

    Not sure what the ph is of Zeolite...?



  • Now that I think about it. I wonder if 4 is a normal ph for DM. Is it not supposed to be neutral to alkaline?...

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    DM also comes whitish or snow white. pH depends on processing and purity. Since it's polymerised silicic acid it's supposed to be very slightly acidic but given its high ion-binding capacity, pH can vary. Same goes for zeolites.
  • Can not use DM if my toothpaste is that acidic... :* Possibly try to find a better quality...
    • Is it possible to whiten/ lighten DM "naturally"?
    • Does ph change when mixing a powder with water?
    • Is there a website which can help me find a product to up the ph?
    • Shea butter/ butyrospermum parkii in toothpaste, what would this be for? I wonder.
    I have a last option which is even more "herbal / natural". I have so many ingredients by now ha ha :)

    Thank you  <3
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    edited September 2019
    calcium carbonate is sold as chalk - if you can find food grade chalk, that's your best bet
    also, diatomaceous earth tends to be very abrasive, personally I'd be very wary about using it in a toothpaste
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • devo2devo2 Member
    edited September 2019
    Bill_Toge said:
    calcium carbonate is sold as chalk - if you can find food grade chalk, that's your best bet
    also, diatomaceous earth tends to be very abrasive, personally I'd be very wary about using it in a toothpaste
    Thanks Bill
    "2um" or whatever you call it the right particle size for abrasiveness?
    I have contacted about 20 + chemical companies, chemists etc. Not sold in less than 25kg's which seriously sucks. 
    There are many toothpaste formulas out there most contain calcium carbonate, some do not.
  • Not sold in less than 25kg's which seriously sucks. 
    It must be very cheap though. I asked for a sample of kaolin and they brought me a 25Kg bag... 
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • @Belassi ; Same here. Expecting 500 g of Kaolin, get a 25 kg sack delivered instead. 
     
  •  :D  :D :D
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Kaolin i expect is same as bentonite sticks to teeth? Unless you have found a miracle formula. With regards to getting more than you expect in return in South Africa...hmmm i doubt it.
  • what about using natural Silica powder? plus bicarbonate or white kaolin as the abrasive? Your pH should be around 8 for toothpaste, 20um particle sizes, you can get just a small coffee grinder to grind the powder for R&D sizes. Titanium is a good whitener, a natural mineral as well. You can also use Tapioca, Starch etc. I put the powders in at the end. You can raise the pH by using NaOH and buy yourself a pH meter that you can calibrate. You can buy one on Ebay. I have even put beeswax as a consistency factor so of course you can put shea butter in. You just need to keep experimenting. Yes you will throw away a whole heap of material along the way but that is all part of the process.
    Honestly, I would not use Diatomaceous Earth, but many people do, that is just my opinion.
    Also if you add a surfactant for foaming, that will raise the pH anyway. A mild surfactant like Decyl Glucoside is an oldy but still OK.
    Dr. Catherine Pratt
    (B.Sc with HONS I , Ph.D Analytical/Organic Chem and Microbiology), Cosmetic Chemistry IPCS)
  • @Belassi, @Herbnerd, @Bill_Toge Thank you. Ordered a 5kg for dirt cheap. 

    @Dr Catherine Pratt also many thanks for your professional opinion.

    1. I have not found Silica to work with my brand. I know big companies use it.
    2. Dr Pratt, I have not found a way to measure what 20uM is in size. My calcium is fine, almost like flour... My xylitol is the consistency of sugar. If per say I grind the sugar in a coffee grinder, would it be 20uM then? What is the diameter of sugar? 
    3. Shea butter! Hmmmm yum

    Merry Christmas and a very happy 2020 ?

  • Oh crikey. @Herbnerd mentioned that size is different to hardness. ?

    Does that mean that you need to test both? Does the “size” matter the same way abrasiveness does? ?
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @devo2:

    The way to figure out your issue is to run your powders through a 20 uM sieve.  Regrind the residual that is trapped by the sieve ... these particles are too large to pass through the sieve and get trapped.  Keep doing this until all of your desired volume of powder runs through the sieve.  You'll then know you have a distribution of particle sizes of no greater than 20 uM.  
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • @MarkBroussard
    Oh you clever man!!!  :D
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