W/Si leave in conditioner

Hi Everyone!

I am working on leave in conditioner. It is possible that I am trying to create an impossible product, so please let me know if this is the case, because I couldn’t find a commercial product with these combination of ingredients.

The idea is w/si emulsion with 20% of dimethicone and cationic polymers in the water phase.

This is what I came up with:

INCI

%

Aqua

56.00%

Germaben II

1.00%

Amodimethicone (trideceth-12 and cetrimonium chloride)

4.00%

Polyquat 10

1.00%

PG

3.00%

Magnesium Sulfate

1.00%

Cyclopentasiloxane

10.00%

Dimethicone 1000

20.00%

Abil Em 90 (Cetyl PEG / PPG-10/1 Dimethicone)

2.50%

Isolan GPS

1.50%

 

Cold process, water added by drops at 200-300 RPMs (my overhead stirrer isn’t precise) and then homogenised (Yes, with a stick blender. The materials mentioned above work fine with a stick blender when there is nothing else but salts and humectants in the water phase).

It didn’t emulsify properly and I saw first signs of separation next morning.  It’s extremely thick and the texture is uneven. I wonder if this is because of thickening properties of polyquat 10.

My logic is, Abil EM 90 is non-ionic. I couldn’t find anything about Isolan GPS to be honest, but I think it should be non-ionic too. So, in theory should work.

Any input is appreciated.


Comments

  • @Perry, apologies for tagging you directly, but I am very interested in your opinion as I know that you are an expert in hair products. Have you ever seen w/si leave in conditioner? It sounds as a great idea to me, but the fact I couldn't find any existing products makes me think it must be either not feasible commercially or impossible to stabilise. Thank you.
  • Ok, if I change the approach, and make it as O/W, is there a non-ionic emulsifier that can emulsify 20% of dimethicone? I have a couple of silicone compatible o/w emulsifiers but they all contain sodium polyacrylate.
  • GuntherGunther Member
    edited August 13
    Why not just add something like behentrimonium or cetrimonium as the main emulsifier?

    Is that a cream leave on conditioner? I believe 20% dimethicone will make it to thick to spray.

    IMO get rid of the Mg-sulfate.
    It does nothing and being a salt it will just destabilize the emulsion.
    Also, salts can leave white residues when leave-on products dry.

    What's the Propylene Glycol purpose?
    I believe it can be removed out too.
  • Hi @Gunther, It is a leave on conditioner, and it is too thick indeed unfortunately. The reason I have salts there, is that it's a water in silicone emulsion. Most of w/o and w/si as a particular case of w/o, require salts for stabilising. As per my modest experience with emulsions of this type, not adding salt is asking for a trouble because it might emulsify and look ok, and then would separate out of blue sky couple of weeks after.
    PG  does the same thing as glycerin (helps dissolving PQ-10), but I personally don't like glycerin in hair products, so replaced it.
    Regarding behentrimoniums.. that was my first instinct to be honest, but I am not sure they can emulsify 20% of dimethicone, so I decided to make it in w/si format. As per some cosmetic chemistry books, w/o emulsions don't like ionic compounds, however those books are quite old and I thought maybe this is not an issue for modern emulsifiers. I might try BTMS-50 or behentrimonium chloride. 
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    In my opinion, 20% dimethicone is overkill. It is going to coat the hair and attract dirt/dust. I would guess that 5% dimethicone is plenty.

    Also, 1% polyquat 10 is probably too high also. While that much makes sense in a rinse off (much of it washes down the drain) in a leave on you could get away with 0.2% maybe.

    There are leave-in serums that are primarily silicone but I can't think of a silicone only leave-in conditioner.  However, a leave-in conditioner will usually have a good amount of silicone (but less than you have) and it will have a cationic polymer/surfactant.  This is because the silicones are good at coating the hair and providing shine, while the cationics are better at reducing static charge. In this way you get the best of both types of ingredients.
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited August 13
    Thank you, @Perry. I like my very simple hair serum that is basically 20% dimethicone and 80% cyclopentasiloxane (I know it sounds a bit DIY-ish). My idea was to add some cationics in it. I know there is amodimethicone, but I only have access to the water soluble emulsion. I also have several polyquats but all of them are water soluble. I will reduce PQ-10. I didn't realise that the fact I like 1% in my shampoo doesn't mean it's good amount for leave in product. I wonder whether you have seen w/si emulsions in hair products. Maybe I am overdoing it..
  • Thank you, @Perry. I like my very simple hair serum that is basically 20% dimethicone and 80% cyclopentasiloxane (I know it sounds a bit DIY-ish). My idea was to add some cationics in it. I know there is amodimethicone, but I only have access to the water soluble emulsion. I also have several polyquats but all of them are water soluble. I will reduce PQ-10. I didn't realise that the fact I like 1% in my shampoo doesn't mean it's good amount for leave in product. I wonder whether you have seen w/si emulsions in hair products. Maybe I am overdoing it..
    There is an old post of mine about some high-silicone BTMS emulsions
    https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/4492/btms-50-to-silicones-ratio
    You can also browse Croda's website, but registration is needed.
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