What do you think of this hair conditioner?

smoksmok Member
edited August 7 in Hair
Hi all

What do you think about this hair conditioner? 
18 L aqua
cetyl alcoohol 1kg
poly7 1kg
citic acide
glycirine 100g
consevateur

Comments

  • Please write it in %. It's impossible to read in liters and grams. Does it even equal 100%?
    Question #1: where is your emulsifier?
    Question #2: what do you think glycerine is doing there?
    Question #3: citric acid, ok nice. what it the pH?
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    It won't be very conditioning. You need a cationic surfactant like Cetrimonium Chloride.  And the questions @ngarayeva001 has posted are relevant too.

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    What is poly7? Polyquaternium 7?
    100g glycerol in approximately 20 kg product... why/what for? Is it part of the preservative blend you're using?
  • smoksmok Member
    Please write it in %. It's impossible to read in liters and grams. Does it even equal 100%?
    Question #1: where is your emulsifier?
    Question #2: what do you think glycerine is doing there?
    Question #3: citric acid, ok nice. what it the pH?
     aqua
    cetyl alcoohol 0.5%
    Cetrimonium Chloride 0.5%Perry said:
    ph 5.5
    glycine to blind parfum
    consevateurPharma said:
    What is poly7? Polyquaternium 7?
    100g glycerol in approximately 20 kg product... why/what for? Is it part of the preservative blend you're using?
    my poly 7 is  myCetrimonium Chloride glycirine to blind parfum

    It won't be very conditioning. You need a cationic surfactant like Cetrimonium Chloride.  And the questions @ngarayeva001 has posted are relevant too.

    my poly 7 is  myCetrimonium Chloride
  • smoksmok Member
    Please write it in %. It's impossible to read in liters and grams. Does it even equal 100%?
    Question #1: where is your emulsifier?
    Question #2: what do you think glycerine is doing there?
    Question #3: citric acid, ok nice. what it the pH?
    why i need emulsion?
  • You are mixing cetyl alcohol, an oil soluble fatty alcohol,  with water. The only way to do that known to me is to form an emulsion.

    If you want to make a conditioning hair spray however,  exclude cetyl alcohol and just add Polyquaternium 7 to water + preservative and you will be ok.
  • smoksmok Member
    You are mixing cetyl alcohol, an oil soluble fatty alcohol,  with water. The only way to do that known to me is to form an emulsion.

    If you want to make a conditioning hair spray however,  exclude cetyl alcohol and just add Polyquaternium 7 to water + preservative and you will be ok.
    0.5% Polyquaternium 7 is it enouth to or 1%
  • Enough for what? I doubt you will see any difference between 0.5% and 1%.
  • svensven Member
    Maybe add some polysorbate 60 to create an emulsion with the cetyl alcohol?. There are many other more modern emulsifiers though
  • If this is a conventional hair conditioner you either need behentrimonium chloride or behentrimonium methosulfate as an emulsifier.
    If it's a hair spray, that cetyl alcohol has no purpose. 

    Polysorbate 60 will probably work with cetyl alcohol as an emulsifier (subject to other adjustments to the formula) but that would be some O/W generic lotion not a conditioner.
  • GuntherGunther Member
    Cetrimonium or behentrimonium is needed both as a hair conditioner, and as en emulsifier for cetyl alcohol.

    I actually tried making a clear, no fatty-alcohol spray leave-on conditioner and somehow it doesn't feel as conditioning as those with fatty alcohols.
    I wonder why, but that's why I found.

    Once you have a proper emulsifier you can add silicones, or coconut oil for leave-on conditioners.

    If you can find Polyquaternium-10, that's way more conditioning than PQ-7 but make sure it doesn't increase viscosity too much.
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited August 7
     @Gunther, I managed to make a spray that is quite conditioning actually. 1% of PQ10, Amodimethicone (emulsion), PQ7, and PEG-8 Dimethicone. I will copy the formula tomorrow morning. But as you mentioned pq10 causes a bit of an issue with viscosity and it doesn’t spray well. I rub it in my hands and apply on wet hair. 
  • smoksmok Member
    Gunther said:
    Cetrimonium or behentrimonium is needed both as a hair conditioner, and as en emulsifier for cetyl alcohol.

    I actually tried making a clear, no fatty-alcohol spray leave-on conditioner and somehow it doesn't feel as conditioning as those with fatty alcohols.
    I wonder why, but that's why I found.

    Once you have a proper emulsifier you can add silicones, or coconut oil for leave-on conditioners.

    If you can find Polyquaternium-10, that's way more conditioning than PQ-7 but make sure it doesn't increase viscosity too much.
    we can increase viscosity with other product 
    righte ?
  • @Gunther ;

    INCI
    %
    Aqua 80.5%
    Amodimethicone (emulsion) 5.0%
    PEG-8 Dimethicone 7.0%
    Polyquat 7 1.5%
    Glycerin 3.0%
    Polyquat 10 1.0%
    Cetrimonium Chloride (30%) 1.0%

    Germaben II 1.0%

    Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it's not easy to apply like that.
  • GuntherGunther Member
    @Gunther ;

    INCI
    %
    Aqua 80.5%
    Amodimethicone (emulsion) 5.0%
    PEG-8 Dimethicone 7.0%
    Polyquat 7 1.5%
    Glycerin 3.0%
    Polyquat 10 1.0%
    Cetrimonium Chloride (30%) 1.0%

    Germaben II 1.0%

    Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it's not easy to apply like that.
    Maybe some extra CETAC can further lower the viscosity?
    How much net active Amodimethicone the emulsion contains?

    Interesting formula. I will try replicating it.
    I'm surprised that so much PQ-10 doesn't leave a sticky residue on hair. But at the end you have to try the formula yourself.
  • It is not sticky but as I said it’s a bit too concentrated. I will probably increase water and reduce everything else to be able to apply more. It’s a good combination overall
  • Amodimethicone concentration is 28-36%
  • smoksmok Member
    Gunther said:
    @Gunther ;

    INCI
    %
    Aqua 80.5%
    Amodimethicone (emulsion) 5.0%
    PEG-8 Dimethicone 7.0%
    Polyquat 7 1.5%
    Glycerin 3.0%
    Polyquat 10 1.0%
    Cetrimonium Chloride (30%) 1.0%

    Germaben II 1.0%

    Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it's not easy to apply like that.
    Maybe some extra CETAC can further lower the viscosity?
    How much net active Amodimethicone the emulsion contains?

    Interesting formula. I will try replicating it.
    I'm surprised that so much PQ-10 doesn't leave a sticky residue on hair. But at the end you have to try the formula yourself.
    @Gunther ;

    INCI
    %
    Aqua 80.5%
    Amodimethicone (emulsion) 5.0%
    PEG-8 Dimethicone 7.0%
    Polyquat 7 1.5%
    Glycerin 3.0%
    Polyquat 10 1.0%
    Cetrimonium Chloride (30%) 1.0%

    Germaben II 1.0%

    Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it's not easy to apply like that.
    I think it's the same product Cetrimonium Chloride Amodimethicone 
    https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Amodimethicone_p_975.html?locale=en
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