Question time on hair product

SpinrSpinr Member

Hello..


I have a water based cream pomade formula which I am quite happy with but have a few questions which may seem basic but would help me greatly.

The product is like a thick lotion which is what I want to achieve, it has a nice feel and texture with some shine in the jar.


water
micro wax
jojoba wax
peg 7 glyceryl cocoate
grapeseed oil
apricot oil
peg 40 HCO
butter
glycerin
Ewax
btms 25
phenoxyethanol
vit e
Frag



  • My question is, how can I make it visually more smooth with the ingredients listed, do I need to add an extra ingredient such as polysorbate 20 to further solubilize the oils etc? The product is good but there are faint lines which might be normal but trying to get the smoothest lab style look in the jar and not just when scooping it out.


  • Would this be simply the mixing stage, I use a drill with mixer attachment, I notice no air in the product using this method?


  • Would too much peg 40 HCO be the cause and it is a matter of getting the ratios right?


  • I made a sample and put in to 2 jars, one of the jars I actually stirred in the jar when it had not fully cooled down and this a few days later now has the better consistency, really smooth like a lab cream, so is it simply mixing longer?


  • Do I need to mix the emulsion for 20 minutes for example before pouring, if so what temperature would I mix for a long period?
  • I am trying to get as close to a lab type image as possible.


  • How can I keep the products viscosity consistent, what I mean is the product changes slightly when left, example first thing in the morning,  once it is mixed around a bit in the jar it returns to its normal consistency, what do i need to add or do differently?


  • The hold is not good enough, I don't want to increase waxes and wondered if PVP is the way to go, does pvp make the product hard in the hair like a gel, is this dependant on how much to use, i.e. 2% would give relatively medium hold but hair can be restyled easily?


  • Would Ceteareth 20 be a better option instead of Ewax Nf for this formula, what would be the difference if any?


Any help appreciated.


Thanks

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Comments

  • @Spinr adding polysorbate 20 was a game changer for me.  It kept my formula liquid long enough to where I didn't have to rush to pour into final containers before getting solid.  I use 11.5% PEG-8 Beeswax, 8% Cetearth 20 and 4% Cera Bellina Wax.  These waxes give my formula a firm hold, so before when I didn't use polysorbate 20, you can see why it would solidify on me. 

    I also use 13% Kaolin Clay and 3.5% Dead sea clay.  GelMaker Style from making cosmetics also helps keep my formula nice and creamy/smooth.  I too use a drill and mixer attachment.  

    If you don't mind me asking, what drill attachment do you use?  I use a stick blender when I add the water phase to the oil phase.  I probably mix for about 8min. Or less.  Then I get the temp back up to 170-180 degrees F.  Once that's done, I add the clays and a little bit of silica microspheres....that's when I switch to the drill for mixing.  I mix for another 8min.  It creates a vortex and the foaming bubbles start to disappear.  When it reaches a safe temp I add preservative and fragrance then blast it one last time with drill.  

    My only issue is after pouring into containets, I leave it in un-covered over night (I leave the jars in my son's room because he has the coolest room in the house) and I get this firm hard top layer.  Almost looks dehydrated.  But only the top layer.  Underneath the consistency is amazing and smooth.

    Sorry for the long response, I just wanted to know your experience with pouring.  Do you leave it un-covered overnight?  Or do you add a piece of cheesecloth to avoid hard top layer? Or perhaps place in fridge? How long do you wait until you place in fridge and for how long in the fridge?

    Thank you!!



  • SpinrSpinr Member
    Hey King Roland

    I have messed with clays for ages and found them difficult to get right, had numerous batches frothy, too thick on mixing, not the right texture, the list goes on.
    I was always working to HLB or had those figures in mind for the oil phase and just couldn't get them right.
    What I did do however is increase ceteareth-20 to around 20%  and lowered wax percentage and increased my water phase with no oils or just a trace.
    I use Peg 40 and Peg 7 and find using a humectant alongside glycerin helps stability and consistency for clays.
    In terms of pouring, I cap them once they are cooled at room temperature (roughly after 4 hours from cooling) and have no issues and after 24 hours they stay stable with no hard top layer.
    For small batch I use a paint stirrer attached to a drill (see pic), this works for me instead of a stick blender which creates air and bubbles for me.
    I also had used 1% polysorbate 20 in the past and it made the formula too thin, instead I increased peg 7 slightly.
    Hope this helps.

    Cheers



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