Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating General Safety about using the common emulsifiers vs. lamellar ones

  • Safety about using the common emulsifiers vs. lamellar ones

    Posted by ggpetrov on December 14, 2018 at 9:18 am

    Hi, I am new here. Just make my own face and body lotion for
    myself. I don’t have ambitions to find a job, or something else. So, as a male
    I am looking for something that is light, non-greasy and non-shiny. I have
    found that BTMS-50 in combination with Behenyl alcochol do the job perfectly. But I
    am concerned about safety by using this emulsifier. I have read that the normal
    emulsifiers could break the stratum corneum barrier, because they still
    emulsify after the emulsification proces has been finished. I have tried these
    so called lamellar emulsifiers, like - Olivem 1000, Montanov 202 and Simulgreen
    but I couldn’t get this nice matte effect of the cationic BTSM.

    So, my question is : Are there any serious studies that
    prove that assertion, and if there are - how actually serious is the problem. I
    mean is there a risk to use for myself my homemade lotion for a long time?

    Thanks in advance, and greetings from Bulgaria 🙂

    gunther replied 5 years, 3 months ago 5 Members · 6 Replies
  • 6 Replies
  • EVchem

    Member
    December 14, 2018 at 3:51 pm

    What’s your source here? 
    Also what do you think surfactants are? (you should look up surfactants vs emulsifiers)
    Is your full formula just those two materials? because I would be a little cautious with that homemade lotion if you’re not adding any preservatives. 

  • Sponge

    Member
    December 14, 2018 at 6:30 pm

    Hi ggpetrov,

    Like yourself, I’m just here to learn and experiment for my own needs, so I apologize for the lack of citations. 

    As far I know, normal emulsifiers will not cause any harm to the stratum corneum. If there’s an excess of emulsifier (wouldn’t be much), it may connect with oil upon agitation, but that’s what soap does. And emulsifier, by definition, aren’t as open to connecting with all types of oils. My understanding is that’s what put surfactants in their category - amongst other things, their affinity to combine with oils. Correct me if I’m wrong, anyone, as I’m sure this is a poor explanation. 

    If nothing else, hopefully you agree that the worst that can happen with emulsifier is that it combines with facial oil and makes a pretty gross cream. :)

  • ggpetrov

    Member
    December 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm

    I
    have read something about this in Susan’s swiftcraftymonkey blog. In
    one of her posts she mentioned that „Studies have shown that
    conventional emulsifiers could cause irritation to our skin by
    disrupting the skin’s lipid barrier, while the liquid crystal
    emulsions mimic the lipid bilayers in our stratum corneum,  which
    means more actives or lipids from the lotions could penetrate into
    our skin. Studies have also shown there is a reduction in
    transepidermal water loss when using a liquid crystal emulsifier and
    an increase in moisturization of our skin as the lotions hold more
    water in contact with the skin for a longer period of time“

    And
    also
    As
    a note,
    take
    a look at this paper
    . The author notes “the efficacy of liquid
    crystal emulsions deep in the skin is a matter of reasonable
    theorizing substantiated with little or no clinical data.” 
    In
    this paper
    , the author notes that “it is hoped that the
    emulsion components will interact with the natural lipids of the
    skin”. So it sounds like it hasn’t been proven that it can
    deliver actives better to the skin?
     

    Many
    of her new recipes are designed with Simulgreen or Olivem. I have
    tried both, but I can’t achieve this powdery effect wich BTMS-50
    gives. I also tried Montanov 202 as it is promoted like emulsifier
    that gives matte effect, but I couldn’t get a stable emulsion. After
    few day it separates. I have tried everything - increased the ammount
    of emulsifier, added fatty alcochol, processed with high shear
    blender and so on … but it has separated anyway.

    Ofcourse
    I use preservative in my lotions. Below I will post my formula, but
    it’s nothing special though

    In
    the oil phase :

    • BTMS-50
      / 4%

    • Behenyl
      alcochol / 2%

    • Caprylic
      Capric Triglycerides / 3%

    • Prunus
      armeniaca kernel oil / 4%

    • Isoamyl
      Laurate / 3%

    In
    the water phase :

    • Allantoin
      / 0,5%

    • Vegetable
      glycerin / 3%

    • Glycine
      betaine / 2%

    • Niacine
      / 3%

    Additives

    • D
      Panthenol / 2%

    • Sodium
      PCA / 2%

    • Silk
      protein peptides / 2%

    • Vitamin
      A Palmytate / 0,5%

    • Vitamin
      E ( mixed tocopherols) / 0,5%

    • Preservative
      ( Pottassium sorbate, Sodium benzoate, Benzyl alcochol) / 2%

  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    December 19, 2018 at 10:11 pm

    Behenyl quat emulsifiers such as BTMS are very mild on the skin, have low irritation indices, and get overlooked in skin-care all the time. I see no worries.  Happy formulating, dude.

  • ggpetrov

    Member
    December 21, 2018 at 7:23 pm

    Behenyl quat emulsifiers such as BTMS are very mild on the skin, have low irritation indices, and get overlooked in skin-care all the time. I see no worries.  Happy formulating, dude.

    Thanks :blush:

  • gunther

    Member
    December 22, 2018 at 2:16 am

    That’s actually a good formulation @ggpetrov even if you don’t want to work as a cosmetic chemist, you may sell your creams.

    Have you tried a similar formulation with stearic acid instead of behenyl alcohol?
    I always wondered if longer chain fatty alcohols aren’t preferable to fatty acids.
    https://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/research/chemistry/97861099.html

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