shaving soap gone wrong
Belassi
Member, PCF student
in Formulating
200g experiment of shaving soap. Initially it was a quite respectable gel consistency, not pasty, but after 3 days it has separated! The bottom layer is purple...
stearic acid 30%
coconut oil 10%
palm oil 5%
NaOH 0.3%
KOH 7.5%
TEA 2.8%
glycerin 10%
fragrance 1%
polyquaternium 7 1%
preservative (methyl parabens) 0.3%
water Q/S approx. 32%
stearic acid 30%
coconut oil 10%
palm oil 5%
NaOH 0.3%
KOH 7.5%
TEA 2.8%
glycerin 10%
fragrance 1%
polyquaternium 7 1%
preservative (methyl parabens) 0.3%
water Q/S approx. 32%
Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
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Sorry I didn't see this! I an familiar with this formula as it is part of my 600+ page research document on Shaving Cream. Your post calls it "soap" as some guys do call shaving cream. I have never seen a formula like this turn into a separated version like in your photo. The only ingredient which is usually not in this and other similar formulas is the Polyquaternium 7 which is usually clear in color. I see TEA listed at 2.8% and I assume you are using triethanolamine and not TEA Stearate? I have seen 1% TEA Stearate and as high as 3% in some formulas but never 2.8% triethanolamine. I did a batch with 4.5% Tea Stearate but it was sort of wet and pasty which didn't work well for me. Temperature is so important in a product like this and getting it up into the 160-170 F degree range isn't not always easy and keeping it up there can be a problem as well! How did things go with this project?
David
I'd be surprised if you had got this aspect wrong, given your repertoire.
I might actually give this a go a little later and see if any separation does occur.
The only other thing that might be worth noting is rates of saponification. IIRC stearic acid reacts very readily to form sodium/potassium stearate, so that will oftentimes 'mop up' a reasonable amount of the NaOH/KOH (probably useless info here). Otherwise, it's reasonably KOH-heavy, so would be a little looser than if more NaOH was subbed in.
I am having this problem with my olive oil soap (olive oil and KOH). the first couple of times it worked great, then something happened and it started separating with a bottom phase having a color similar to yours.
I do not have currently a solution for this problem but I hope that it can be solved.
Tried as hot process as it was quicker than leaving things cool down and allowed me to add the stearic acid as liquid rather than trying to incorporate a semi-solid stearic acid/coconut oil/sunflower oil (as didn't have palm to hand, adjusted for sap values).
Pretty well as two phases, didn't get around to preservative or fragrance, added with mixing with an immersion blender.
Nearly instantly (as to be expected with Stearic Acid saponification) formed lumps of reasonably solid masses, so not thoroughly homogenous. pH was holding high around 11-13 for the accessible bits. As if there wasn't quite enough water added, or that it crashed the potassium stearate out quicker than anything else could happen (more likely).
Would be interested to hear whether you did this as cold process, which I'm assuming you did.
Funnily, adding more water and blending the mixture allowed me to fetch the pH down closer to 9-10, though was a bit messy. The resulting liquid foamed quite nicely and had a reasonable amount of slip to it, so I'd like to think that the original mixture would've been nice until it had separated.
I did notice that the outer interface of the solid masses was a little 'bouncy' so assume that it was more gel than 'cream' in consistency. Fun little trial, unfortunately with no answers to your conundrum.
I agree with you. We're here to learn so let's see what we come up with! The two issues which I see are the "TEA" listed and the amount of NaOH used and the ratio between the NaOH and KOH which are covered in many old books and other sources. If it is actually TEA Stearate then it would probably work out to .9% triethanolamine and 1.8 stearic acid with .1% superfat included in the stearic. The ratio of the NaOH to the KOH seems to be the problem here. The oils used in the percentages listed are the same as a formula posted here by "saleem" in 2012:
"Here is a simple formulation of shaving cream with its simple procedure.
(A)
Stearic acid = 30.00%
Coconut oil = 10.00%
Palm Oil = 5.00%
(B)
Potassium Hydroxide = 7.00%
Soda caustic = 1.50%
Glycerin = 10.00%
water = 36.50%
Process.
separately Heated in the vessels at 75 centigrade temp
The ratio of the oils in the above formula is about 5/1 which many sources suggest and the .3% NaOH used in this formula is quite low throwing this ratio with the 7.5% KOH to 20something/1 ratio which is way out of the ballpark! My formula with 4.5% Tea Stearate made a batch that was wet and pasty so I'm thinking that the too low NaOH and what may be too high Tea Stearate may be the reason it did what it did! Such strange results! Benz3ne, what do you think?Part (A) and Part (
After this mix both parts till it become homogeneously.
Add the perfume in the end at 35 centigrade.
It is a simple formulation which raw material easily available in the market."
David
I'll also agree that the NaOH vs KOH values seemed way out of whack. I've seen 5:1 being mentioned before but had a good go with a veggie-friendly shaving soap (harder, rather than cream/paste) with 3:2 KOH:NaOH and that firmed up nicely also. It is absolutely worth noting that the Stearic Acid definitely likes to freeze up during hot process. Something that I've seen mentioned on multiple occasions.
I am, however, interested in the distinction between Belassi's formula vs Saleem's, in that Belassi's contained Polyquaternium-7.
I recall doing some fiddling a while back with shaving soaps/creams and found that stearic-heavy formulae gave a lot of fluffy bubbles. Nice to look at but not substantially slippy to provide glide during shaving. Saponifying castor oil definitely helped, as did palm oil. I don't recall trying with coconut oil but have some fractionated coconut oil to hand now so I may well dig out some notes and give it a go (with PolyQuat-7 included I think) and see how that goes.
Similarly, I found that overloading with glycerine gave stick/tack rather than slip so that's worth noting.
Laaasttly, I have some vague recollections of accounting for evaporative losses with water content, though I could've dreamt that up... It's always worth noting that superfatting is a very worthwhile avenue to explore for shaving soaps.
The things I recall is that stearic acid saponified rapidly, that coconut oil-bases if used at higher %'s are typically quite drying, that the combination thereof typically makes stable lathers. I recall that small quantities of castor oil really aided the glide of the lather.
As you allude to, it's all about the balancing act. There's no benefit in a wholly stearic acid soap, a wholly coconut oil soap, etc. for shaving.
The consistency I eventually settled on was a soft 'block'. Malleable but not a cream. Gave a rich, dense lather with little effort and was reasonably heavily superfatted in lieu of less glycerine. I'm also blessed with soft water so that helps when trying lathers.
Long and short of it is the balancing act and that some people like things that others don't!
As long as it works for you! I'm selling to the "shaving community" out there online and they are quite a tough crowd with lots of experience with all of the varieties of Lathering Shaving Cream made and sold all over the world which doesn't make it easy! Interestingly, the original post included a formula that was posted on this site but it wasn't put up here correctly in the first place! It is actually a Harry's Cosmeticology formula that didn't include "Palm" oil but rather "Palm Kernel" oil which puts it into a different ballpark! Also the ratio of KOH to NaOH at 7.0% to 1.5% is not actually a 5/1 ratio which is what is most often suggested! Yup! A balancing act for sure!
David
Ah, see that's where the devil is in the detail. Coconut vs fractionated coconut, TEA vs TEA stearate, Palm vs Palm Kernel... it all makes a difference!
It's funny how you'll spend all this time perfecting something and you get the one oddball who says something along the lines of:
"But Vitos/Cella/insert old-school Italian soap name here is just as good, costs less and was made x decades ago!" - tough crowd indeed.
Here is a formulation that has worked quite well for me
water = to 100%
Glycerin = 6.00%
EDTA 4Na = 0.10%
Potassium Hydroxide = 7.00%
Soda caustic = 1.50%
Stearic acid = 30.00% (Half after sapon.)
Coconut oil = 10.00%
Palm Oil = 5.00%
Isopropyl Palmitate = 2.00%
Essential Oil Blend = 0.90%
I was even successfully in pressing them using a shampoo bar mold w/ 95psi. It fits nicely in a 4oz jar and leaves room for a brush. I am such a newbie, I have never even owned a brush! One is on its way from Amazon. I had to try and lather with my hands. The shave is absolutely incredible.
I also had multiple attempts to recreated the Proraso Pre Shave cream. It is a product I have used for years, but with my new shave soap, I don't feel like I need it as much
I will try and dissolve the colloidal oats in the oil phase, it makes sense.
Currently working on soap which would be softer and could lather up without the use of a brush. I would have to remove the palm oil I believe, as I had a trial with only coconut oil and it was much fluffier. I also have an attempt using sodium lauroyl sarcosinate but I feel like I used too much (2%)
Yes, I am familiar with that formula. It was listed here by "saleem" and it is available online from various sources starting with books but also in .pdf form which has the "Palm Oil" listed but the original formula actually has "Palm Kernel Oil" listed at 5% and the rest of what is out there appear to be "copies" of that original book formula from "New Cosmetic Science". Hopefully, the colloidal oatmeal will work well for you!
The problem with shaving cream and shaving soap formulas as well as some other shaving types of products is that most of the available information from traditional shaving products is around 100 years old and some of the best sources of these types of products are old cosmetic chemistry and soap making books with the most useful information starting in the 1920's. For me, "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" is my philosophy but I'm open to working with these types of formula and experimenting with "newer" ingredients if I feel like it! I also like to keep it simple, if I can as long as the product can do what you need it to do! I'll check out the "colloidal oatmeal" when I have some time!
Thanks!
I found the addition of isopropyl palmitate to be very helpful, almost to the point where you could do second passes without lathering up again.
You must have found formula #2226 of Poucher's as there are very few formulas with Stearic, Myristic and Coconut in them! This one isn't even a lathering cream either! The problem I have encountered the most is that so many of the "shaving cream" formulas of this type don't specifically say what their purpose is! I have seen only a few that list "lathering" as their type and others like the one above is more of a liquid cream that is applied to the face with your hand and a brush is not really needed.
There a some formulas that contain "observations" and "recommendations" about formulating these shaving creams which has been helpful but some may vary on certain points from the others which makes it more difficult to know which aspect will work best!
I like working with these old style formulations because they are simple and if done correctly can give you exactly what you need! They are can have some more "modern" types of additives that can give them something a little special but still remain acceptable in the shaving market!