Natural Shampoo ingredients

Hi dears, Requesting help for my natural shampoo ( Aloe vera Shampoo ) with bellow ingredients : 
" Aqua, Lauryl Glucoside, Lauryl Betaine,
Coco-Glucoside (and) Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate
(and) Glycerin, Cocamide DEA, Glycerin, PEG-150
Distearate, Citric acid, Polysorbate 20, Propanediol,
Hydroxypropyl Guar (and) Hydroxypropyl Guar
Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Disodium EDTA,
Panthenol, Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Leaf Juice
(Organic), Hydrolyzed Milk Protein, Keratin Amino Acids,
Sodium Benzoate (and) Potassium Sorbate, CI 42090, CI
19140 "
Is it this called "Natural - organic shampoo "  ? 

Thanks for all ! 

Comments

  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Well, first of all, "natural" is a marketing term and lacks a definition. As such, using it as if it is a defined term hinders the  R&D and Formulation process.

    The shampoo above is built partially around Alkyl polyglucosides, a plant derived surfactant. However, there are several ingredients which would not be allowed under the natural standards. Calling it "natural" would expose someone to FTC action. See here.

    More on what is "natural" read this introductory yet comprehensive blog post.


    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    edited September 2017
    @krrane:

    No, this formula would not be considered Natural as you have ingredients in your formula that are Synthetic.

    If you want to develop a Natural formula, follow the guidelines of the Natural Products Association.  Here's the list of Allowed Ingredients ... if it's not on the list, don't put it in your product if you want to claim Natural.

    https://www.npainfo.org/App_Themes/NPA/docs/naturalseal/Updated Illustrative list v122110.pdf


    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I would just avoid the term Natural altogether. It is for all intents and purposes pseudoscience. Plant-derived or "naturally compliant" if you follow a standard is better. 
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • Thank you dears, 

  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    I would not underestimate the power of the words "Natural" or "All Natural" from a marketing perspective.  Those are significant differentiators.  If you just follow something like Natural Products Association guidelines, you have nothing to worry about.  You can even have your products NPA-certified.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • You can even have your products NPA-certified.
    If you happen to have $3,000 to spare for each formula.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Belassi:

    The price is actually $500 per formula for NPA members and $1,250 per formula for non-members.  It isn't expensive to join NPA.

    But, being natural is is like being beautiful ... it's time consuming, it's painful and it can be expensive.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I have certified 7 products for clients through NPA. The price is nowhere near 3K each.

    I agree that there is Marketing appeal to natural. My concern is that unless they certify the Product (as we agree is beneficial), in many cases if they follow an undefined "Natural" standard in R&D, they will either be as "natural" as the initial posted Formula or they will be so "natural" that they will greatly hinder the performance. I am sure we have seen products at both ends of this spectrum. In many cases, the person who strongly desires a "natural" product doesn't have the chemical background or familiarity with the existing standards to develop a compliant product.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    The key to expediting the whole process is to use a Contract Manufacturer who is already NPA-certified.

    As Mark noted above, following a defined Natural standard, like NPA, is the best approach as it eliminates any uncertainty and even if you don't have the product NPA-certified, in a court of law or dealing with the FTC, you can always point to your compliance with NPA.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • How can fined Manufacturer who is already NPA-certified ? 

  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @krrane:

    Just Google NPA Certified Cosmetic Contract Manufacturers or contact NPA directly.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Since there are a lot of chemists here, let's be clear that most of the ingredients on the NPA approved "natural" list are also synthetic.

    For example, Cetyl Alcohol does not exist in nature. It can only be synthetically produced.

    It is also illegal in the US to sell any Zinc Oxide that is mined naturally.  It has to be synthetically produced.  From the FDA Code of Federal Regulations...

    §73.1991   Zinc oxide.

    (a) Identity. (1) The color additive zinc oxide is a white or yellow-white amorphous powder manufactured by the French process (described as the indirect process whereby zinc metal isolated from the zinc-containing ore is vaporized and then oxidized). It is principally composed of Zn.

    While the shampoo formula posted has synthetic ingredients so do a lot of formulas approved under the NPA standard. 

    Cosmetics are not natural.  Calling some natural and others synthetic is a marketing ploy.  

    We should really come up with different words to describe the difference between what people consider "natural" and what people don't consider natural.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I have been coaching my clients to use the term "Naturally compliant" if the raw materials are plant-derived and minimally processed. The COSMOS standard does a great job defining allowable processing. As a Formulator, I can say the term natural has slowed R&D and caused more confusion than it has ever helped.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    All of the Natural Standards developed their lists of allowed ingredients taking into consideration and defining the types of extraction processes and chemical reactions that are acceptable for an ingredient to be certified Natural under their program.  They all also provide a list of certified ingredients.  If you stick to the lists of Standards-allowed ingredients, you don't have a problem.

    The term "Natural" is already baked into the public lexicon ... it's what has been marketed to consumers for years and what those consumers understand, so that's not going to change.  It's even been used as the basis for class-action lawsuits.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @MarkBroussard - I agree with most of what you've said.

    We might disagree a bit on what consumers understand by the term "natural".  For example, I don't think consumers know anything about Sulfation or the French Process. The COSMOS standard allows both of these synthetic reactions for their "natural" standard.

    Consumers are consistently mislead or lied to by numerous natural cosmetic companies.  For example, we've got brands like this one http://www.tataharperskincare.com/  who blatantly misleads consumers. 

    "100% natural and nontoxic skincare, cosmetics, and aromatherapy. We’ll never use synthetic chemicals and everything we make is formulated and manufactured by us at our farm in Vermont."

    Do you think consumers believe that when they say "we'll never use synthetic chemicals..." what they really mean is "we'll never use synthetic chemicals except for the synthetic chemicals allowed by whatever natural standard we are following"?

    It would be interesting to see a lawsuit against a natural company that follows the NPA standards and claims they don't use synthetic chemicals.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Well, I think the whole "everything we make is formulated and manufactured by as at our farm in Vermont" is probably the most misleading statement in trying to position this as an enterprise that is "farm to bottle" when that is obviously not true, nor really possible.

    I think the consumer's understanding or expectation is that all of the ingredients are derived from natural sources, primarily plant-based or if from some other source, say ZnO, as you pointed out, minimally process & modified only to the extent that is necessary.  

    For instance, they are highly likely not to be aware that an ester that is not natural per se (meaning it is not derived directly by an extraction process without further processing), but is derived synthetically by an approved esterification process/reaction directly from a precursor molecule that is derived by an approved extraction process from plant (botanical) source material.

    I think in the consumers mind "Natural" and "Botanical" and "Botanical Sourced" are pretty much one and the same.  But, I think that can also extend to minerals, for instance.

    When a consumer reads "synthetic chemicals" I think their understanding is that the neither the chemical ingredient itself, nor it's precursor molecules were derived from botanical sources, but from the petroleum chain or chemically processed using non-botanically derived solvents, etc.  

    They may not be so consciously aware of this, but if you tell them XYZ was derived from coconuts as the original source material, then they understand that some processing was required to convert it into the end ingredient.

    This is a Brand issue of building trust with the consumer.  That's why following the Natural Standards are important ... it gives consumers the feeling that someone is looking out for their best interests in evaluating ingredients and the processes used to create those ingredients.

    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • I agree, what I noticed is that the concept is first introduced  by the use of botanic iconography, it is quite common to see leafs and fruits as a sign of "natural origin", and a missleading phrase like "comes from nature". And of course a transparent product on a transparent bottle with a transparent label to give the impression of natural and low level of process.

    But I saw that this applies mostly to rinse off products. On leave ons like anti age creams is quite the opposite. There is a pharma/biomed approach, and the "natural" hook is that the ingredients are the same found in your body "farmed" by scientists in a lab, and what you get is a refill of enzimes and vitamins.

    Amazingly both work like a charm and coexist with no problem. I suppose it is because they are targeting a different segment. 

    Anyway, I think this will last untill something "natural" harms the general population and the good old tested synthetics are demanded again by fear. It reminds me of the anti- herbalife campaign back in the 90's.
  • Hello dears, 
    Thank you for all .. 
    What about this : 

    Coconut Shampoo

    Ingredient : Aqua, Lauryl Glucoside(natural), Lauryl Betaine, Coco-Glucoside (and) Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate (and) Glycerin(ecocert), Cocamido Propyl Betain(natural), Glycerin(natural),  Propanediol(ecocert), Hydroxypropyl Guar (and) Hydroxypropyl Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride(natural), Disodium EDTA, Panthenol(natural), Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil(Natural),  Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Fruit Extract(natural), Hydrolyzed Milk Protein(Natural), Keratin Amino Acids(Natural), Sodium Benzoate (and) Potassium Sorbate (ecocert).
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Disodium EDTA could be a barrier for that product with some standards. It would most certainly become an issue if you simply called it "natural" and waited for the blogosphere to weigh-in.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    You'll need to replace the EDTA with Sodium Phytate.  I don't have time to check your formula, but if you cross-referenced your ingredients with the NPA allowed ingredients list and/or with the ECOCert list and all of your ingredients were on one list or the the other (most of these Natural Standards lists of allowed ingredients are virtually identical, with some outliers), then you should be in good shape.

    The fact that you included Disodium EDTA ... well, cross-reference against the lists if you want to be sure.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Also, none of these ingredients will have any noticeable impact on product performance.

    Panthenol(natural), Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil(Natural),  Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Fruit Extract(natural), Hydrolyzed Milk Protein(Natural), Keratin Amino Acids(Natural)
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    edited September 2017
    I'll also point out that as an ingredient listing, it is non-compliant for FDA rules. Using anything other than INCI names is not allowed, so things like "(and), or (Natural), or (Ecocert)" are incorrect. 
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    You mean this is not acceptable?

    Caprae Lac (Organic Goat Milk from our favorite Goat, Baha, who we milk daily while performing tantra massage to eliminate stress hormones in the milk and we feed only hand-harvested Organic Grass ) 
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @Bobzchemist - I've found that among some groups of "makers" they have the belief (and have gotten the advice from their experts) that INCI names are not required but rather common names are.

    @MarkBroussard:D


  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    edited September 2017
    Apparently, they've confused the rules for soap with the rules for cosmetics. It is confusing, and especially when they are convinced they're right because the read a chapter of some pseudo-expert's book, impossible to correctly advise folks.

    It's hard to tell what will happen with this regime - will the FDA regulations be enforced strictly so that the competition for the big guys is reduced, or will the FDA be decimated by budget cuts? Only time will tell.
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    My take on that is that I use strict INCI notation and the FDA has never blinked at one of my labels.  I see that controversy all the time.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Generally, the FDA responds to complaints that are filed as opposed to randomly scouring the Ingredient Labels of products ... they simply don't have the staff to do that.

    That's why you see so many product labels that do not comply with FDA labelling requirements.

    Take a look at all of the "Organic Sunless Spray Tan" products out there.  HINT:  It is virtually impossible to create an Organic Sunless Spray Tan and there is no such thing as Organic Certified Dihydroxyacetone.  Yet, the claims of Organic are pervasive.  That's just one example.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    True, the FDA primarily responds to complaints these days - but do you really want to give your competitors that much potential leverage over you?

    Also, "certified organic" skincare is regulated by the FDA, the USDA, and the third-party certifiers. The certifiers are particularly aggressive about filing lawsuits against any non-certified product fraudulently claiming "organic" status, since they are protecting their livelihood. I think those products are living on borrowed time.
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Bobzchemist:

    No, you don't, but if you don't file a complaint with the FDA, your competitors may go years with improperly labelled products before anything is done by the FDA.

    The use of the term Organic in the sunless spray tan market is rampant.  And, not one of these products contain a USDA Organic Certification seal and not a one of them complies with UDSA Organic requirements regarding allowed ingredients.  Yet, they're all over the marketplace.

    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
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