Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating EDTA and Carbopol

  • EDTA and Carbopol

    Posted by lopamudra on February 23, 2017 at 10:29 am

    While making any batch we generally start with adding EDTA to water and then polymer ….however is there any chance that addition of EDTA after neutralisation of polymer affaects viscosity.?

    bill_toge replied 7 years, 1 month ago 8 Members · 10 Replies
  • 10 Replies
  • bill_toge

    Member
    February 23, 2017 at 10:49 am

    which polymer are you using?

  • johnb

    Member
    February 23, 2017 at 3:12 pm

    It depends a lot on other aspects of your process.

    The best way to answer your question is to try it youself and see.

  • belassi

    Member
    February 23, 2017 at 6:40 pm

    EDTA is a crystalline solid, trying to introduce it after the Carbopol would merely result in the creation of suspended air bubbles while mixing…

  • microformulation

    Member
    February 23, 2017 at 10:16 pm

    You can add it after the Carbopol as long as you don’t neutralize the carbomer. If you read the Technical articles, they recommend that with emulsions, you neutralize the carbomer until after emulsification. This assumes that the Carbomer is added to the continuous phase to stabilize the emulsion. In a serum (essentially a thickened simple solution), it is a moot point. You could simply neutralize last.

  • lopamudra

    Member
    February 24, 2017 at 5:48 am

    Hi all  Iam using Ultrez 20.What is the ideal stage to add EDTA?Should i add it to water before addition of any polymer or should i add it after polymer addition?

  • bobzchemist

    Member
    February 24, 2017 at 3:37 pm

    Try it for yourself and find out.

  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    February 24, 2017 at 5:19 pm

    Better yet,lopamudra, don’t add any Na(x) EDTA at all if you are using any type of carbomer including Ultrez. This is an electrolyte and it WILL crash the acrylate polymer chain extension resulting in poor or no viscosity.  If you have to use it for whatever reason, add it after you have hydrated the Ultrez and don’t use much of it or you will be defeating the purpose of the Ultrez. 

  • chemist77

    Member
    February 25, 2017 at 3:36 am

    Have tried using it in the past and got what @chemicalmatt just mentioned. For me it’s a big no for carbomer only based formulations. 

  • belassi

    Member
    February 25, 2017 at 7:49 pm

    I use EDTA in my 3 gel products (Ultrez-20) but at only 0.01%

  • bill_toge

    Member
    February 26, 2017 at 10:56 pm

    in my experience, 0.1% w/w disodium EDTA does thin carbomers slightly (I’ve used it with Synthalen K, Carbopol ETD 2020, Ultrez 10, 20 and 21), but if the loss proves to be unacceptable, it can be compensated by adding slightly more carbomer

    in my experience, it has never had a detrimental effect on long-term stability

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