thicken agents for low ph product

SksxlcSksxlc Member

so i have limits with carbomer  and hydroxyethyl cellulose  . obviously carbomer not usable at low poh .

 trying to make a product similar to Neutrogena Tsal %3 sal  ( ph is 3.5 ) and Is like honey

Neutrogena used hexylene glycol as only thickener I see but cant find it anyplace. my ph is 3 as im at %4 SAL . and cant get it thick enough

 The inactive ingredients are water, sodium C-14-16 olefin sulfonate, cocamidopropyl betaine, linoleamidopropyl PG-dimonium chloride phospatem, hexylene glycol, polyquaternum-22, sodium lauroyl sarcosinate, and sodium citrate.


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Comments

  • DavidDavid Member
    carbopol ultrez 30 works from pH 4 according to Lubrizol.
    Why is hexylene glycol hard to find for you? It is a very common chemical, you can even find it on Amazon.
  • Well, I just this minute prepared a new formula with pH at 3 to 3.5 and thickened it without problems using Glucamate LT.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • SksxlcSksxlc Member

    only place I seen it is sigma Aldrich  500g 50 .00     Glucamate LT  32.00 a pound  and is easier to find  so I will try that first  thanks


  • ZinkZink Member
    HEC works even with strong peels.
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    hexylene glycol will thin formulas rather than thicken them - and as there's no obvious thickener in there, I believe that ingredients list is incomplete

    agree with @Zink's suggestion of HEC, and I'd add one for xanthan gum too - I've seen that used to thicken hydrochloric acid toilet cleaners with a pH of 0 - 1, so it shouldn't have a problem here
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    The blend of Sodium C-14-16 Olefin Sulfonate and Cocamidopropyl Betaine can be thickened with salt.  No additional thickening agent is really required.
  • cherricherri Member
    Try Amaze XT with Xanthan gum
  • SksxlcSksxlc Member

    :( well bill you are correct  after I purchased said product listed as thickener I read I t was a thinner , sure nuff just .5oz of hexylene glycol turned a half gal of semi thick shampoo into water , 

    will try the xanthan gum  , believe I tried it in past and I t made product hazy but ill take thick over appearance . already had used what perry suggested but when I get to 4ph it thins out . im shooting for 3 to 3.5 as the Salicylic acid goes from %90+ at 3ph to less than %10 availability at 4 .   


    anyone know if "carbopol " is same thing as carbomer 940 ?  makers of carbopol claim works to ph 4  but ive tried the carbomer and same issue at ph 4

    thanks for all input let ya know what works best

  • SksxlcSksxlc Member
    oh BTW HEC gives me separation issues  trying to get it thinned out prior to mixing as it separates to surface  any suggestions
  • Carbopol 940 is a carbomer and will not work at those pH values.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • SksxlcSksxlc Member
    DING  DING  DING   it looks like neutragena TSal inactive ingredient list is incomplete as bill said . I just received a bottle of the Glucamate LT per belassi suggestion and guess what ?  same color, consistency ans SMELL as the TSAL product  looks like the main ingredient by volume is   Glucamate LT .   ;) 

    thanks again all 
  • (Laughing). Glucamate has really nice sensorials. If you want even thicker or to use less, Glucamate VLT will do that.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • ashishashish Member
    Purpose of using Hexylene glycol in Neutragena is to solubilize Salicylic acid. It act as a solvent here. I do agree with Belassi, Glutamate VLT and DOE thickeners from Lubrozol are good options for this. I worked with Glutamate range, got good results. But, if product is over thicken, it would form lumpy gel. Its needed to keep flow able viscosity in case of Glutamate.   
  • DavidWDavidW Member, PCF student
    I had problems thickening a cleanser with low pH (salicylic acid) .  I think we ended up using Aqua SF-1.
  • Yes, Ashish. It's not a linear relationship, I noticed that I have to carefully adjust each batch by hand, a little too much takes it to something more like plastic flow.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • ashishashish Member
    Aqua SF 1 will form turbid gel below 6.
  • DavidWDavidW Member, PCF student
    @ashish in our case it was not a clear product.  It is a cleanser with EGDS for pearl. 
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