Liquid Soap

Hello everybody and thank you Belassi for guidance.

For a hypoallergenic liquid soap, which products to put on and which ones to avoid.

Thanks.

Comments

  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Unfortunately your question has no answer, at least not from me, for the following reasons:
    1. I am unable to find any definition of the term "hypoallergenic" in reference to personal care products.
    2. One person's allergen is another person's balm.
    3. The world is full of so called hypoallergenic products, which generally aren't. For instance THIS shampoo, which has decyl glucoside as its main component - a known allergen referenced recently in Dermatology Magazine. You might like to read the customer comments about it.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Bonjour.

    Thank you for your comments and advices Mr. Belassi. I personally, liquid soap dries my skin and i do not want him to do for the other. My question is : what products to avoid in a liquid soap formulation, or otherwise, what is the proportion not exceed for these products.

    Thank you.
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Synthetics will produce a good result. It is similar to making a shampoo, less complicated.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    First, find a commercial soap that works for you, then tell us what's in it. There are a great many soap ingredients that dry out skin to one extent or another - it is an unavoidable side effect of cleansing skin.
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • Thank you Bobzchemist and Belassi.
  • We produce a lot of liquid soaps using various combinations of saponified oils, and none are drying to the skin. The issue largely is not so much the oils used (although it is a factor), but the recipe, and we tend to superfat slightly to help in producing something that is not drying to the skin.
    Dr. Mike Thair
    Cofounder & Chief Formulator
    Indochine Natural
  • FaroukFarouk Member
    edited April 2016
    I think the effect on the skin of a saponified oil is different from that of a synthetic soap as Sulfates or other.  

  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    edited April 2016
    Yes Farouk, absolutely. We make cold process soap here (solid) and I spent several months experimenting with liquid (natural) soap. In the end I rejected the liquid form because:
    1. It was an absolute pain to make it.
    2. It was more drying to the skin. Superfatting results in a cloudy soap, visually unattractive.
    3. The shelf life was not as good.
    4. The synthetic (based on a blend) was easy to make cold - no time spent heating or cooling.
    5. The synthetic has better foam.
    6. The synthetic has far better sensorials.
    7. The synthetic doesn't dry the skin.
    8. The synthetic tolerates many more fragrances without clouding.
    9. The synthetic is much cheaper to make.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    This is an interesting dilemna although I will say @Bellassi has really given you a great answer based upon real world experience.
    The dilemma is that many "naturalistas" react with horror about sulfates causing the skin barrier to temporarily be compromised. What is interesting is that the saponified soaps have a similar transient effect on the skin barrier as well due to the higher pH. I have read some Journal articles stating that unless there is an underlying medical issue where the skin barrier is already compromised, the issue is really not that therapeutically significant. So we bash sulfates just because someone says it is bad and go "natural"  with a material which has the same minor issue as well. I understand that sulfate free is the marketing reality but it is really an issue of looking further into WHY there is a scientific or medical concern not just accepting the online buzz solely. I guess my long winded argument is don't lead with "I use a natural soap because sulfates are so bad." Both have their limitations.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • Hello.
    now I have prepared liquid soap based on saponified oil with KOH to have a soft soap. I added the SLES for foam. My liquid soap is not transparent , it is pearly with ph 7, fragrant and leaves a good feeling in the skin of hands . I'm happy with this natural-synthetic association. I also noticed that the hot water favors the irritation of the skin with liquid soap.
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    If you altered the pH to 7 by adding an acid such as citric acid, what you have is snot mixed with SLES. If you try to reduce the pH of saponified oils by adding an acid, it decomposes. I cannot imagine why anyone would want to make a mix of natural and synthetic surfactants, it defeats the purpose of both.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Though experience and research, the lowest pH that you would be able to have with a saponified oil (with KOH, TEA or other bases) would be about 8. Any more would produce the snotty mess as Belassi describes.
  • Clinicals have shown over and over that hot water itself is a skin irritant.
  • @Belassi makes some good points. We produce a lot of liquid soaps and our experience is:

    1. It was an absolute pain to make it.
    Yes, but with practice and the right equipment the "pain" can be minimised.

    2. It was more drying to the skin. Superfatting results in a cloudy soap, visually unattractive.
    Not the case in our experience.

    3. The shelf life was not as good.
    Not our experience.

    4. The synthetic (based on a blend) was easy to make cold - no time spent heating or cooling.
    Yes, not that we have any experience with synthetics.

    5. The synthetic has better foam.
    Yes, probably.

    6. The synthetic has far better sensorials.
    Many of our customers think otherwise.

    7. The synthetic doesn't dry the skin.
    Not our experience or that of our customers.

    8. The synthetic tolerates many more fragrances without clouding.
    Yes.

    9. The synthetic is much cheaper to make.
    Absolutely.

    Then I guess this begs the question, why do we bother? We believe there is a niche market for these products, plus, we like making these.


    Dr. Mike Thair
    Cofounder & Chief Formulator
    Indochine Natural
  • 5. The synthetic has better foam.
    Yes, probably.

    Don't know your soaps....but have found 10% Castor oil tends to have the same effect as 1% CDE in the synthetics...lots of foam. 
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    That's really interesting, @DragoN. I'll have to try that. Is that 10% of the whole formula, or just the oils?
    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • 10% of the oils

    Don't sue me on the difference of describing bubbles vs foam....but lots of bubbles/foam with castor oil in the mix. 
  • Bob,  I go higher than 10% in Castor oil as one of the oils.  I would think 20% should fine for you.  Trust me, Castor Oil makes a great liquid soap and I use it in mine with great results! 

  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    We use Potassium Oleate, but lather is a problem.

    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • David08848David08848 Member
    edited April 2016
    Bob, I use Potassium Oleate myself and lather isn't a problem for us!  Castor Oil and Coconut Oil work together nicely to make a good product with good lather.  Check it out on my website...
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