Proper INCI for saponified oils not specified

Hi everyone,

I'm working with camelina sativa seed oil in a traditional CP soap formulation.

I notice there are separate INCI listings for sodium cocoate, sodium palmate, etc. but nothing for saponified camelina oil. 

Which then is the proper way to list this?

camelina sativa (camelina) seed oil, sodium hydroxide, ...
or
saponified camelina sativa (camelina) seed oil, ...

Thanks in advance for the help.

Comments

  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    If this is in the USA then I don't believe there is a requirement to list INCI ingredients in soap.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • beautynerdbeautynerd Member
    edited July 2015
    @Belassi... not so lucky in Canada. Our guidelines are:

    "With respect to ingredient labelling of soap products, our cosmetics group indicated that it would be acceptable to use any of the following formats as long as the ingredients were in INCI format:
    (a) the initial ingredients used in the soap making process,
    (b) the final/remaining ingredients of the soap after the chemical reaction, or
    (c) a combination of the two formats (ingredients before and after)."

    Am considering going with (b) for my superfatted formula as:
    sodium camelinate, glycerin, camelina sativa (camelina) seed oil, aqua, ...

    Even if sodium camelinate is not in INCI yet. 

    As an aside.... interested to hear your thoughts on CP vs syndet soap performance.

    Is it possible to formulate semi-syndets in small batches without specialized machinery?

    Thinking about something like the following where the soap (sodium camelinate, glycerin, camelina sativa (camelina) seed oil) component is rebatched from an earlier preparation. 

    %
    Sodium camelinate 32
    Sodium cocoyl isethionate 32
    Clay 7
    Lauric acid 4
    Stearic acid 4
    Camelina sativa seed oil 4
    Glycerin 4
    Sucrose cocoate 4
    Tetrasodium glutamate diacetate 4
    Fragrance 2.5
    Sodium stearoyl glutamate 2
    Activated charcoal 0.5
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    since the sodium salt of camelina seed oil doesn't have a recognised INCI name (or even a CAS number for that matter) any declaration of it on the label would be spurious

    in this instance I'd personally go for approach a) 

    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • BobzchemistBobzchemist Member, PCF student
    edited July 2015
    I agree with Bill. Just list the oil and the Sodium Hydroxide as ingredients. Using a non-existent INCI name is asking for trouble.

    However, there's nothing to say that you can't apply for an INCI name at the PCPC yourself. https://inci.personalcarecouncil.org/inci-app/ 

    Robert Zonis, Sr. Formulation Chemist, Beaumont Products "All opinions and comments expressed are my own, have no relation to Beaumont Products, are fully copyrighted, and may not be used without written permission."
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    The only way to tell is to try it, but in general, well made CP soap is far superior in foaming and nicer to use than syndet bars, but doesn't last as long of course, and has a limited shelf life. One problem is sweating which can occur if the ambient humidity is a bit high. You would need to know the shelf life of that oil, I have never heard of it before. Many oils - eg soya oil - have short shelf-life and CP soap made with them goes rancid.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • Thanks guys.... 

    Perhaps will try my hand at applying for INCI listing. Nothing like a new challenge. 

    Camelina oil is like soy but claims to be rich in anti-oxidants/tocopherols giving it a shelf life of 2+ yrs. Plus an agrestic scent that I quite like. Emerging crop in Canadian prairies, nice to support bio-diversity whenever possible. Might throw in some rosemary extract to help ward off rancidity.

    Saw swiftcrafty monkey's adventures with syndets. Will give my semi-syndet a try and post results here.  
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Seems like new items popping up on a weekly basis! Thanks for that piece of info. We make CP soap with 30% of high oleic safflower, results are excellent, better than olive oil.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
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