Honeyquat and Carbomer

Hello all!

I recently read the spec and research document for the Honeyquat 50 I had on hand. I was surprised to read that it supposedly worked well with Carbomer as I've always been under the impression that quats don't play well with Carbomers. So I gave it a shot today for a hair gel and the result was a liquidy mess. The literature states what you should increase the resin by 10% weight to compensate for viscosity loss. I thought I did that.

Formula
Water-96.2
Carbomer (originally .5% increased by 10%) .6%
TEA-.2%
honeyquat-2%
Germaben II-1%
Did I do my math wrong or does honeyquat 50 just turn the formulation to a liquid?

Regard,
CosChemFan

Comments

  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    Which carbomer are you using? Some are more resistant to electrolytes than others.
  • CosChemFanCosChemFan Member
    edited April 2015
    Carbomer 940. I typically use Ultrez 20 for my hair gels, but wanted to try the carbomer after reading the literature
  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    Try the Ultrez 20 and see if that works. The quick start guide for the Ultrez 20 mentions using cationics so it should be ok.

    https://www.lubrizol.com/Personal-Care/Documents/Quick-Start-Guides/CP-34-Carbopol®-Ultrez-20-Quick-Start-Guide.pdf
  • CosChemFanCosChemFan Member
    edited April 2015
    Hi @ozgirl I'm aware of Ultrez-20, it works great! My question was more geared towards individuals that have experience using honeyquat 50 and carbomer 940 together due to the recent discovery that they can be used together. I'm positive Ultrez 20 would work as I use quats with it all the time for my hair gel forumla with no issues. Thank you for that document though. I didn't have that one!
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    in the context of a hair gel, "resin" usually mean PVP or a similar polymer; I've never heard carbomers described as resins
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • CosChemFanCosChemFan Member
    edited April 2015
    @Bill_Toge I thought the some thing however, in the context of the document, carbomer was being talked about exclusive:

    "Solubility & Formulating Information

    Honeyquat 50 is freely soluble in water and in aqueous alcohol (60/40). It is soluble at 1% in the following materials: propylene glycol, ammonium myreth sulfate (60%), and cocoamidopropyl betaine. It is not soluble in oils and esters.

    Unlike many conventional conditioning agents, Honeyquat 50 will not reduce the foam of anionic and non-ionic surfactants. Honeyquat 50 can easily be formulated with carbomers to form clear gels, provided that they are pre-neutralized. A slight loss in viscosity will result that can easily be compensated for by using 10% more resin by weight. The preferred carbomers include Carbopol 1342, ETD 2020, 941 and 940.

    Honeyquat 50 is ideal for:
    • Leave-on and rinse-off applications
    • Substantive humectant, for hair and skin
    • Softens and plasticizes skin
    • Improves feel and styleability of hair

    Honeyquat 50 PF Typical Properties SAP Code # 138170
    Appearance Clear to slightly hazy, pale straw colored liquid Odor Slight, characteristic amino note Color (Gardner) 6
    Maximum Non-Volatile-Matter (1g - 1hr - 105°C) 49.0 - 54.0% pH (5% Solution @ 25°C) 4.0 - 6.5
    Activity (Brooks Industries Test Method) 31.0 - 45.0%
    Microbial Content 100 opg Maximum, No Pathogens
    Preservative System 0.2 - 0.4% Sorbic Acid
    Recommended Use Level 2 - 5%"
  • Update:

    I made another batch this time with the carbomer 940 at 1%. I'm pretty sure I did my math wrong the first. Everything worked out well the second test batch. There was a slight decrease in viscosity, but other than that the gel is stable. It has a similar skin feel just with more glide. I'm going to try it in hair and see what we get. Thanks for all the help!
Sign In or Register to comment.