Any answer will be welcomed

FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
edited September 19 in Formulating
 1) I want to know if DEA coco amide is allowed to use in baby shampoo? if yes is 2% is acceptable?

 2) for perfume can polyquaternium as 7 and 10  be perfume fixative agent?

3) is it effective to use pq 10 in leave in conditioner? What recommended usage rate for such product?  Then is pq 10  compatible with carbopol?
 @ngarayeva001 @Abdullah @Perry @Paprik @Pharma @Graillotion @ketchito ;


  • 1. Ot may not have any problem but I won't use it.

    2. Do you mean in shampoo?
    No, cationic guar may be better option

    3. Yes it will be effective but not recommended. 
  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    1. Where are you looking to sell your product? Cocamide DEA is classified as a possible carcinogen by the IARC and is on the Prop 65 list in California. It is not an ingredient you want your customer to investigate.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    1)why you will not use DEA COCOAMIDE ? 
    2) no for perfume (alcoholic) and pq10 is already cationic guar. 
    3)why it is not recommended to use pq10? 

    @ozgirl the product will be selled in Africa however it doesn't matter for me, the most important thing is the ethic not the law. However I read a lot of official rapport wich prove the safety of DEA coco amide... 
  • 1. Some complications with formaldehyde or CMI MI preservative.
    2. I thought you are talking about shampoo. I don't know much about perfume.
    3. It doesn't feel good on hair. 
  • @Fekher If used according to regulations, Cocamide DEA is dafe for use. The problem with that ingredient is both the presence of secondary amines and the presence of a nitrosating agent in your formula (lile Bronopol). But, if you choose a Cocamide DEA that has lees than 5% of its content as secondary amines (with which most suppliers comply now) and don't use nitrosating agents, you'll be fine. You could also lower the pH of your product with an organic acid for example, to neutralize any secondary amine present. Ascorbic acid is very good at preventing nitrosation.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @Abdullah so if I use phenoxyethanol it will be fine?
    @ketchito so if my system contains CAPB, PQ10, DEA COCOAMIDE , COCO GLUCOSIDE do you think that is safe as baby shampoo?

  • Yes
  • Fekher said:
    @Abdullah so if I use phenoxyethanol it will be fine?
    @ketchito so if my system contains CAPB, PQ10, DEA COCOAMIDE , COCO GLUCOSIDE do you think that is safe as baby shampoo?

    @Fekher Just out of too much caution, I wouldn't use Cocamide DEA in baby shampoos. I recommend you to check baby shampoos from big brands, to see how they formulate their products. Keep in mind that one of the important things is the tear free property of the product, and for that highly ethoxylated surfactants are more recommended.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    edited September 21
    @ketchito actually I tried the product evry thing is fine viscosity, foam, conditioning effect and. no tear. The system cocoglucoside, CAPB can't not reach acceptable viscosity with slat, may be there are other good thickners but I find DEA coco amide soo effective for both foam and viscosity. For famous brands I found that i'am in the good way the main ingredients are CAPB,  glucoside coside derived. 
  • @Fekher i really love Cocamide DEA, and yes, it works well in the system you describe. If you want to try something new, a nice replacemet for Cocamide DEA is PEG-4 rapeseedamide. You can find it from different suppliers, like Kao or Clariant. It comes in liquid form and acts the same way as CDEA. If you want extra mildness, PEG-80 sorbitan laurate is a nice addition (J&J has been used for several years). Just as a nice addition. Good luck!
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    Thanks a lot @ketchito very helpful what you are telling. 
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