Help Please! Questions On Some Formulas With Salicylic Acid, Peptides, and Alpha Aurbtin

Hi Everyone, I have been working on some exciting formulas, and a few questions have come to mind. I would appreciate your opinion if possible.

1. A cleanser for Acne-Prone Skin - (Vegan and Foaming) - 2 years shelve life. 

Aqua (Deionized Water), Sodium Gluconate, Vegetable Glycerin, Disodium Cocoamphodiacetate, Alkyl PolyGlucosides, Coco-Betaine, Salicylic Acid, Propylene Glycol (BIOBASED), Niacinamide, Chamomilla Recutita (Chamomile), Hamamelis Virginiana (Witch Hazel) Water, Sodium Anisate, Sodium Levulinate 

Actives:- 2% Salicylic Acid &  1% Niacinamide 

I know most actives don't shine in a non-leave-on formula like a cleanser. Is it a better option to put the salicylic acid at 1%? 


2. The second thing I am working on is an Oil- Free Moisturizer (Vegan - For very oily to acne-prone skin). The challenge here is for me to at an elegant texture that feels hydrating even though it's oil-free.

Aqua (Deionized Water), Sodium Gluconate, Vegetable Glycerin, Propylene Glycol (BIOBASED), Stearamidoethyl Diethylamine, Cetearyl Alcohol, Glycol Distearate, Castor Isostearate Succinate, Niacinamide, Aqua (Deionized Water), Salicylic Acid, Sodium Anisate, Sodium Levulinate, Emblica Officinalis (Amla Berry) Extract

 Actives

- 2% - Niacinamide

- 2% - Salicylic Acid

Do you think I can make this 1.5% salicylic acid and 5% niacinamide, and how can I achieve that plush texture?

Also, will Castor Isostearate Succinate still allow the formula to pass as oil-free?

3. The third one is a Peptide Moisturizer (with anti-aging properties, brightening and great for dry skin).

Aqua (Deionized Water), Xanthan Gum, Sodium Gluconate, Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Leaf) Juice, Vegetable Glycerin, Stearic Acid RSPO, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Decyl Oleate, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Ricinus Communis Seed Oil (Castor Oil), Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Copernicia Cerifera Cera (Carnauba Wax), Glyceryl Stearate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60, Sodium Anisate, Sodium Levulinate, Sodium Hyaluronate, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-1, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-7, Ethyl Ascorbic Acid, Alpha-Arbutin, Niacinamide, Pistacia Lentiscus (Mastic) Gum (Vitamin A)

 Actives:

- 2% - Hyaluronic,

 1% Peptides

- 1.4% Vitamin C

- 5% - Alpha Arbutin

- 5% - Niacinamide

- 1% - Vitamin A

Here I worry that 5% alpha arbutin might be too much, and maybe 2% is ideal. Also, is ethyl ascorbic acid (vitamin c) a great addition or not? And should I be adding more % of peptides in this peptide moisturizer, say (3%)?

Lastly, what ingredients would you recommend to give the product a barely there smell without being a fragrance or essential oil (I was thinking about licorice extract) but wasn't sure. 

I know it's a lot - but any help will be appreciated here!

Comments

  • Why are sodium gluconate and xanthan gum highest in your formulas. 
  • Abdullah said:
    Why are sodium gluconate and xanthan gum highest in your formulas. 
    Hi Abdullah, Thank you for responding - the ingredients are not written in the order - so sodium gluconate as chelating agent ( 0.1-1.0%) and xanthan gum (thickening agent, texture enhance) are not the highest in the formula. 

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    1. Correct, salicylic acid doesn't do anything in a rinse-off product. Add less, this won't keep you from using it as claim ingredient.
    2. Depends on your definition (or rather that of your clients) of oil.
    3. Is it a brightening/bleaching product or a moisturiser? If it's the former, adding also licorice would totally fit the claims. You'd be on the safer side to use ethyl ascorbate instead of ascorbic acid. 5% arbutin is limit because you risk that it's not fully dissolved.

    Did you actually make these products or are you only planning on making them?
  • @ESChemlover In general, the preservative system in your formulas might not be robust enough, especially with the type of extracts you're using. Also:

    1) not sure how much glycerin you're using, but you use it in a cleanser only as claim ingredient, also, so your foam is not impaired  

    2) amidoamines are not usual in skin leave-on products; maybe you could switch to a non charged emulsifier?

    3) why are you writing Vitamin A in your Pistacia? If you meant it as a source of it, you better mention that, since the INCi of vitamin A is different. Also, don't use much of Aloe Barbadensis, sin it can increase the risk of microbial contamination of your product.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    edited August 17
    @ketchito In that particular case, it makes absolute sense to use is. IMHO cationics are underrated in skin care. They behave differently which makes them more difficult to use (HLB for example utterly fails. It does so in many cases anyway but with quaternaries...) and there's also a regulatory side to the story. However, stearamidoethyl diethylamine by itself isn't even a charged molecule and can be used for diverse types of emulsion (and they can feel really nice).
    Regarding gum mastic: THIS may an explanation.
  • Pharma said:
    1. Correct, salicylic acid doesn't do anything in a rinse-off product. Add less, this won't keep you from using it as claim ingredient.
    2. Depends on your definition (or rather that of your clients) of oil.
    3. Is it a brightening/bleaching product or a moisturiser? If it's the former, adding also licorice would totally fit the claims. You'd be on the safer side to use ethyl ascorbate instead of ascorbic acid. 5% arbutin is limit because you risk that it's not fully dissolved.

    Did you actually make these products or are you only planning on making them?
    Thank you for your response, I appreciate your input. I have a sample batch I am trying out - but I haven't fully made the product.

    1. Thank you for validating that - I'll probably use 0.5% Salicylic here
    2. Consumers are now have more skincare information but are grossly misinformed - I am thinking whats correct on paper here - will this polymer be seen as oil free
    3. I am aiming for a peptide moisturizer with brightening and anti-aging properties (not bleaching at all but brightening) - will 2% alpha aurbutin be ideal instead - i also want the product to be ok for the EU market as a cosmetics. I am also using prefer ethyl ascorbic acid because its very stable
  • ketchito said:
    @ESChemlover In general, the preservative system in your formulas might not be robust enough, especially with the type of extracts you're using. Also:

    1) not sure how much glycerin you're using, but you use it in a cleanser only as claim ingredient, also, so your foam is not impaired  

    2) amidoamines are not usual in skin leave-on products; maybe you could switch to a non charged emulsifier?

    3) why are you writing Vitamin A in your Pistacia? If you meant it as a source of it, you better mention that, since the INCi of vitamin A is different. Also, don't use much of Aloe Barbadensis, sin it can increase the risk of microbial contamination of your product.
    ketchito said:
    @ESChemlover In general, the preservative system in your formulas might not be robust enough, especially with the type of extracts you're using. Also:

    1) not sure how much glycerin you're using, but you use it in a cleanser only as claim ingredient, also, so your foam is not impaired  

    2) amidoamines are not usual in skin leave-on products; maybe you could switch to a non charged emulsifier?

    3) why are you writing Vitamin A in your Pistacia? If you meant it as a source of it, you better mention that, since the INCi of vitamin A is different. Also, don't use much of Aloe Barbadensis, sin it can increase the risk of microbial contamination of your product.
    Hi @Ketchito ;Thank you for your response, I appreciate your input. 

    Why do you feel like my preservative system for there 3 products are not adequate enough and what would you choose as a more effective alternative here and why? - i appreciate you input!

    1. I am using a little glycerin in the formula to help gently removes dirt, oils and make-up from the skin. Also as a humectant to help cleanse without leaving the skin feeling dry and stripped. 

    2. Amidoamines (Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine) in this formula - i am using it as an alternative to silicones in the formula since it's derived from vegetable oil, and like silicones can be used to keep oils and waters properly blended in this oil free formula, is considered vegan, and it feels very nice - is there a more effective alternative you would want me to consider?

    3. @Pharma is right about the gum mastic - either way it's not an ingredient in my marketing plan for this product. Because this is more of a peptide moisturizer product i am thinking of  adding 3 % of peptides intsead of 1% in this peptide moisturizer, and reducing the alpha arbutin from 5% to say 2% to avoid sensitizing users and regulatory issues + solubility issues.

    Also, is ethyl ascorbic acid (vitamin c) a great addition or can i just go without it here?

    Thank you
  • Pharma said:
    @ketchito In that particular case, it makes absolute sense to use is. IMHO cationics are underrated in skin care. They behave differently which makes them more difficult to use (HLB for example utterly fails. It does so in many cases anyway but with quaternaries...) and there's also a regulatory side to the story. However, stearamidoethyl diethylamine by itself isn't even a charged molecule and can be used for diverse types of emulsion (and they can feel really nice).
    Regarding gum mastic: THIS may an explanation.
    @Pharma Thatnks. As always, your experience and knowledge are very helpful 😁. Perhaps I acted out of too much caution (my wife has very sensitive skin, so she's always a point of reference for me). And yes, stearamidoethyl dimethylamine can bare only transiently a cationic charge, so it might be worthy to try it.

    It still rings a bell that natural "alternative" to vitamin A, but maybe that was just a reference in the post, and not an intended INCI declaration that would go on the label.
  • ketchito said:
    @ESChemlover In general, the preservative system in your formulas might not be robust enough, especially with the type of extracts you're using. Also:

    1) not sure how much glycerin you're using, but you use it in a cleanser only as claim ingredient, also, so your foam is not impaired  

    2) amidoamines are not usual in skin leave-on products; maybe you could switch to a non charged emulsifier?

    3) why are you writing Vitamin A in your Pistacia? If you meant it as a source of it, you better mention that, since the INCi of vitamin A is different. Also, don't use much of Aloe Barbadensis, sin it can increase the risk of microbial contamination of your product.
    ketchito said:
    @ESChemlover In general, the preservative system in your formulas might not be robust enough, especially with the type of extracts you're using. Also:

    1) not sure how much glycerin you're using, but you use it in a cleanser only as claim ingredient, also, so your foam is not impaired  

    2) amidoamines are not usual in skin leave-on products; maybe you could switch to a non charged emulsifier?

    3) why are you writing Vitamin A in your Pistacia? If you meant it as a source of it, you better mention that, since the INCi of vitamin A is different. Also, don't use much of Aloe Barbadensis, sin it can increase the risk of microbial contamination of your product.
    Hi @Ketchito ;Thank you for your response, I appreciate your input. 

    Why do you feel like my preservative system for there 3 products are not adequate enough and what would you choose as a more effective alternative here and why? - i appreciate you input!

    1. I am using a little glycerin in the formula to help gently removes dirt, oils and make-up from the skin. Also as a humectant to help cleanse without leaving the skin feeling dry and stripped. 

    2. Amidoamines (Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine) in this formula - i am using it as an alternative to silicones in the formula since it's derived from vegetable oil, and like silicones can be used to keep oils and waters properly blended in this oil free formula, is considered vegan, and it feels very nice - is there a more effective alternative you would want me to consider?

    3. @Pharma is right about the gum mastic - either way it's not an ingredient in my marketing plan for this product. Because this is more of a peptide moisturizer product i am thinking of  adding 3 % of peptides intsead of 1% in this peptide moisturizer, and reducing the alpha arbutin from 5% to say 2% to avoid sensitizing users and regulatory issues + solubility issues.

    Also, is ethyl ascorbic acid (vitamin c) a great addition or can i just go without it here?

    Thank you
    @ESChemlover Unfortunately, since glycerin is very water soluble, it won't do much in a surfactant-based cleanser, but impairing your foam. It will mostly go to the drain before being able to perform.

    SAPDMA is not an alternative to silicones. I mean, it can be a good ingredient to use, but they have different mechanism to perform. Silicones are more emollient and give more lubricity. There are many fair reolacement for silicones in leave on products, depending of what you want. You could reach out Inolex, Clariant, Oxiteno or BASF for silicone replacements tailored to your needs.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    ketchito said:
    SAPDMA is not an alternative to silicones.
    True that. But in the above formulation, it probalby serves another purpose, namely as co-emulsifier, which increases emulsion stability and boosts the lamellar network. Replacing it with a silicone alternative would also mean that an appropriate emulsifier most likely has to be added.
  • Special thanks to everyone that participated in this forum topic! I was able to get an elegant formula in the end. For the moisturizers - i narrowed down to 2 actives instead of all the actives i had initially. For the cleanser, I made the salicylic 1% instead.
  • What is the ratio of salicylic acid and arbutin? I only have raw materials, and I will not make finished products suitable for human faces.
  • perri said:
    What is the ratio of salicylic acid and arbutin? I only have raw materials, and I will not make finished products suitable for human faces.
    Hi Perri - I don't quite understand what you mean or what you are trying to say here. But if you are asking about how much ARBUTIN i used in the final product - the answer is none, i completely removed it.  
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