Preservative for Hyaluronic Serum

Hey guys, I'm working on this simple Hyaluronic serum and just want to cross check my work and get your thoughts. In particular I want to see if you agree with the preservative, amount, etc.
I really am looking for the best most "natural" leaning system to preserve without irritation. Thank you!

% aqua
1.5% H/Acid
0.5% euxyl pe9010 (Phenoxyethanol 90.0% Ethylhexylglycerin  10.0%)

Container is pump or dropper

I see some recipes have dehydroacetic acid but not sure if I should add that, im trying to keep the LOI minimal.






Comments

  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    Pump is good.  Prob need something for Gram + bacteria and fungi.  
    What is your target pH?
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Dazed:

    PE9010 + Sodium Benzoate + Pentylene Glycol + pH < 5.5 should do the trick for you. 
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals & Clean Beauty arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program/Clean At Sephora/Credo Clean guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    Phenoxyethanol still passes as "natural"?
  • DazedDazed Member
    edited August 2
    Target pH would be 5. The goal for this version is to make the purest form of H/A and possibly something better then whats available. So Water, H/A, preservative.

    Whats available:
    Product 1: Distilled Water (Aqua), Hyaluronic Acid (Sodium Hyaluronate), Contains less than 2% of Phenoxyethanol, Benzoic Acid, Dehydroacetic Acid.

    Product 2:Distilled Water, Glycerin, Hyaluronic Acid, Phenoxyethanol, Ethylhexylglycerin, Citric Acid, Potassium Sorbate

    I lean towards product 2 just because I think the LOI is more friendly to the average customer reading it. Although the Glycerin might read as a filler in a "pure" H/A product. 
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    edited August 2
    @Dazed
    Think both are prob ok - with Sodium benzoate rather than Benzoic acid.   I prefer the 1st as I've seen more stability issues with sorbate.

    No sure what natural leaning means - what would be the claim?
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    @Perry
    Bet we can find some org. to call anything natural - the license to deceive is cheaply bought.
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @PhilGeis - yes, of course. I just had the sense that phenoxyethanol was on the outs with the natural crowd.

  • DazedDazed Member
    PhilGeis said:
    @Dazed
    Think both are prob ok - with Sodium benzoate rather than Benzoic acid.   I prefer the 1st as I've seen more stability issues with sorbate.

    No sure what natural leaning means - what would be the claim?

    Thanks, I guess what I think of as "natural leaning" would be something derived from a coconut or similar, or something not banned from wholefoods list. 1 Rated on EWG.
  • DazedDazed Member
    @Dazed:

    PE9010 + Sodium Benzoate + Pentylene Glycol + pH < 5.5 should do the trick for you. 

    Thank you, do you think it could pass without the Pentylene Glycol? I'm trying to limit to 3 preservatives if possible. What would you recommend is a good starting point on the percentages? End use is in a 8oz pump so it could be used all over the body.
  • DazedDazed Member
    Perry said:
    @PhilGeis - yes, of course. I just had the sense that phenoxyethanol was on the outs with the natural crowd.


    Haha, yes, I certainly don't want to include anything on the outs with the natural crowd!
  • DazedDazed Member
     I think Phenoxyethanol is out. :(
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited August 3
    Dazed said:
    @Dazed:

    PE9010 + Sodium Benzoate + Pentylene Glycol + pH < 5.5 should do the trick for you. 

    Thank you, do you think it could pass without the Pentylene Glycol? I'm trying to limit to 3 preservatives if possible. What would you recommend is a good starting point on the percentages? End use is in a 8oz pump so it could be used all over the body.
    Pentylene Glycol is a potentiator, not really a preservative in most circles.  It would be the LAST thing I would remove from any formula.... Have you ever felt what this miracle juice does to a formula...? Ever heard of .... making water feel wetter?  BINGO...welcome to the world of Pentylene glycol....takes a product from Ho Hum....to OMG!  (Enhances the humectant properties as well.)

  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited August 3
    Dazed said:
     I think Phenoxyethanol is out. :(
    Well...then you really don't have a primary preservative....just a couple supporting legs!  Always make a safe product first....and worry about the loonies later.  Your lawyer and insurance will thank you.

  • DazedDazed Member
    Dazed said:
     I think Phenoxyethanol is out. :(
    Well...then you really don't have a preservative....just a couple supporting legs!  Always make a safe product first....and worry about the loonies later.


    Yeah, I don't know. I see it in nearly every serum, paula's choice, etc.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Dazed

    Are you specifically formulating to Whole Foods standards or any other standard?  Your channel distribution strategy may affect your preservative options that are acceptable unless you are going DTC.

    You could consider:  Phenethyl Alcohol + Pentylene Glycol + Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate 
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals & Clean Beauty arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program/Clean At Sephora/Credo Clean guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    Bunch of secondary preservatives.  Suggest you go for efficacy and consumer protection rather than politically correct standards.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Dazed said:
    @Dazed:

    PE9010 + Sodium Benzoate + Pentylene Glycol + pH < 5.5 should do the trick for you. 

    Thank you, do you think it could pass without the Pentylene Glycol? I'm trying to limit to 3 preservatives if possible. What would you recommend is a good starting point on the percentages? End use is in a 8oz pump so it could be used all over the body.
    PE9010 (1%) + Sodium Benzoate (0.3%) + Pentylene Glycol (2%).

    You mentioned both Whole Foods and EWG ... are you trying to conform to both or are you trying to get EWG certification?
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals & Clean Beauty arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program/Clean At Sephora/Credo Clean guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    Yes - pentylene glycol is prob not necessary but do add EDTA.  1% 9010 is  a bit high.  5000 ppm phenoxy is a good target.
  • DazedDazed Member
    PhilGeis said:
    Bunch of secondary preservatives.  Suggest you go for efficacy and consumer protection rather than politically correct standards.
    I agree, I'm just trying to find line where those two meet without overloading products with questionable chemicals.
  • DazedDazed Member
    edited August 3
    @Dazed

    Are you specifically formulating to Whole Foods standards or any other standard?  Your channel distribution strategy may affect your preservative options that are acceptable unless you are going DTC.

    You could consider:  Phenethyl Alcohol + Pentylene Glycol + Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate 
    Yes, I would like to try to follow the whole foods standards when possible, as well I cross check with EWG, etc.

    I do feel PE9010 at (1%) might be too much since it's the max range for leave on.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Dazed

    Phenethyl Alcohol (1%) + Pentylene Glycol (2%) + Geogard Ultra (1%)
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals & Clean Beauty arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program/Clean At Sephora/Credo Clean guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • DazedDazed Member
    @Dazed

    Phenethyl Alcohol (1%) + Pentylene Glycol (2%) + Geogard Ultra (1%)
    I do like the dual purpose (scent) of the Phenethyl Alcohol
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    Phenylethyl is not the equal of Phenoxyethyl.
  • Reducing the pH to 4.7 helps a lot if you are not using good preservatives. 
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    edited August 3
    I don't know how much correct it is but someone told me that i should have at least 0.1%, ideally 0.15% organic acid in it's acid form + a preservative like phenoxyethanol for bacteria + EDTA.
    That would be at least 0.7% sodium benzoate at pH 5 to get 0.1% in acid form. 
    At pH 4.7, 0.5% which is upper limit for leave on product would give you 0.1% in acid form. 

    This is not for cleansing products. 

    I am looking to hear from experts here about this. 

  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Dazed

    Either system will work for you.  Select that one to best matches with your marketing objectives.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals & Clean Beauty arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program/Clean At Sephora/Credo Clean guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • DazedDazed Member
    Abdullah said:
    Reducing the pH to 4.7 helps a lot if you are not using good preservatives. 
    This reminds me of hot sauce, with a low ph it can pretty much sit opened in a cabinet for a year or so.

    Food Safety Controls of Hot Sauce
    Therefore, the pH of the hot sauce must be less than 4.6 and an acid, such as vinegar, should be added to ensure that the pH is below 4.6, as clostridium botulinum cannot grow in a pH less than 4.6.



  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    Clostridium botulinum is not a cosmetic problem - pseudomonads are the primary risk contaminate well below 4.7.
  • Abdullah said:
    I don't know how much correct it is but someone told me that i should have at least 0.1%, ideally 0.15% organic acid in it's acid form + a preservative like phenoxyethanol for bacteria + EDTA.
    That would be at least 0.7% sodium benzoate at pH 5 to get 0.1% in acid form. 
    At pH 4.7, 0.5% which is upper limit for leave on product would give you 0.1% in acid form. 

    This is not for cleansing products. 

    I am looking to hear from experts here about this. 

    Please, correct me if I'm wrong @PhilGeis, but some surfactants are able to modify organic acid's pKa (like Sodium laureth sulfate), which allow formulas to use not as much Sodiun benzoate to have a good amount of free acid at a determined pH. In practice, you don't see formulas having that much (0.7%) Sodium benzoate for this reason. I believe some cationic surfactants are also able to shift organic acid's pKa in the same manner.
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    @ketchito
    Right.  There are a few article on this and I certainly saw efficacy of the concept in challenge. 
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0003267080870474
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