liquid soap became cloudy and lost viscosity ... help !

So I've been making small batches of hand liquid soap the past year and I was able to create a soap that I was happy with.

Once we started production, 450 KILO. The soap at the production site lost its viscosity and came out cloudy. The small samples that have been made at the production site have had the same effect. I don't understand what has changed since it has been the same formula for the past year.

Does anyone have any suggestions how to correct the cloudiness and viscosity of this batch, and future batches. 

P.S The production site is very hot. 

Formula

SLES 10%
cocamidopropyl betaine 5%
coco glucoside 3%
Cocamide DEA 2%
peg 7 2%
NACL 2%
fragrance .5%
glycerine .5%
sodium benzoate .3%
EDTA .2%
citric acid .085% 
color

Thanks !


Comments

  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    Is it 10% SLES paste that equals 7% active surfactant?

    Have you made any sample with current batch of raw materials that had enough viscosity?

    Have you tried more NACL for increasing viscosity?
  • nmaltinmalti Member
    hi,

    Yes. It's SLES paste 70% active surfactant.

    when I add more salt it doesn't change anything. how much salt can I add? I've always believed that 2% is the maximum I can add. 

    I was thinking of increasing the percentage of cocamidopropyl and betaine and cocamide DEA.  The production site is very hot so not sure if it's the heat that's affecting viscosity.

    I'm at a loss to save this batch. Also the fact that it came out cloudy is confusing to me since all the samples I've done prior have always been clear.

  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    You can use more NACL and see if that solves the problem. 

    Also, are you sure it is coco glucoside and not decyl Glucoside?

    Also don't use fragrance and glycerin in a sample and see if it is the cause.


  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    If you want to save this batch you can always use a polymer like HPMC or xanthan gum depending on your mixing machine
  • ketchitoketchito Member
    @nmalti You coud pick a sample, and do two tests, one increasing and the other decreasing pH, to see if both viscosity and clarity improve in any of those cases.
  • nmaltinmalti Member
    thanks @Abdullah and @ketchito

    I tried to do several samples.

    The salt did not change anything.

    I did do a sample with guar gum at 1% and it helped.

    the p.h is at 6 currently. 

    THe cloudiness affect seems to have come from the magnolia fragrance. I did sample tests with the other fragrances and there was no cloudiness.

    i decided to use a pearlizing agent for the visual which actually came out really nice on the samples. 1%

    Now i'm trying to understand why the viscosity got affected. Maybe I am not incorporating NACL the correct way?

    Do you all make a solution with NACL or incorporate NACL in powder form slowly??? I incorporate it directly ... maybe that's the problem??? 
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    Yes that is the problem. 

    In large batch it needs more mixing so the percentage of NACL would be 2% in every part. If it is in powder form and little mixing, concentration of NACL in one part would be too much and in another part too little so they cant provide viscosity.

    If you have made the same formula in smaller sample quantity and the viscosity was enough then the problem in this big batch is not enough mixing. By mixing more its viscosity will increase.
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    pH 6 with sodium benzoate?
    Micro may not be the source of your immediate concern - but that is a useless preservative system.
  • rodb1958rodb1958 Member
    did you add the frag directly, or premix it with some Coc. DEA? You'll get better results premixing.
  • nmaltinmalti Member
    @rodb1958 ;

    I did add the fragrance directly. Do you suggest I add it with DEA? How will that help to see better results ... In the viscosity, the smell??? Thanks!

    Thanks for all the help everyone ! 


  • rodb1958rodb1958 Member
    add it with the coc des to pre solubilse the fragrance, the c.dea/frag blend should be clear and may also thicken. prepare this and add it to the water/surfactant blended phase. Its more liely to produce a clear product than adding frag alone.
  • nmaltinmalti Member
    It was suggested to thicken the product with xhantum gum. I only found guar gum. It caused a jelly layer at the top and did not increase viscosity. How can i fix this issue ??? Thank you gor all the help 🙏

    All the other batches ive made with different fragrances have had no issue. 

    I'm trying to save this magnolia batch but im at a loss. 
  • ketchitoketchito Member
    @nmalti That means guar gum didn't incorporate into your product. Either you try mixing it with higher speed, or better remove the top layer and use a different thickener, although this is not a good practice if you intend to sell the product. If your product has a betaine, it'd be worthy to lower the pH a bit, to see if viscosity increases.
  • @nmalti which fragrance are you using, acqous or oil based? Can you tell me brand name? 
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