Cationic polymer to silicone ratio for maximum deposition vs minimum polymer use

I am using Amodimethicone 100k cst in shampoo and glyceryl oleate in bodywash with guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride as deposition aid. The ratio i use them is 5 part Amodimethicone or glyceryl oleate vs 1 part cationic guar. For example 1% Amodimethicone or glyceryl oleate vs 0.2% cationic guar as this is the ratio i have seen suppliers show in there prototype formulas.

My goal is to achieve hair conditioning and skin refatting with Amodimethicone and glyceryl oleate, minimize the amount of cationic guar and use only the minimum amount required to help deposition of Amodimethicone and glyceryl oleate best.

So my question is:
What amount of cationic guar is needed minimum to help the deposition of for example 1% Amodimethicone or glyceryl oleate from cleansing product?

Or what should the ratio of Amodimethicone/glyceryl oleate vs cationic guar be if we want to use minimum cationic guar and the only purpose for it is helping the deposition of Amodimethicone/glyceryl oleate? 

Comments

  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    edited May 9
    @Abdullah for shampoo or bodywash it is better to use cationic polymer however why not to try a sample without it and see the result, my thoughts that tensioactifs in the product may can (dissolve/emulsify) your silicone. 
  • ketchitoketchito Member
    @Abdullah i'm not aware of a ratio for this, every formula is different and surfactant selection always play a role.

    Btw, if you use a cationic polymer as deposition aid, you better use a non ionic silicone (like dimethicone) instead of amodimethicone.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    Fekher said:
    @Abdullah for shampoo or bodywash it is better to use cationic polymer however why not to try a sample without it and see the result, my thoughts that tensioactifs in the product may can (dissolve/emulsify) your silicone. 
    Yes cationic polymers are very important multitasking ingredients but for hair conditioning, i like the feeling of silicone more than polymer. So i wanted to minimize polymer and maximize silicone from polymer/silicone combo from Shampoo.


  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    ketchito said:
    @Abdullah i'm not aware of a ratio for this, every formula is different and surfactant selection always play a role.

    Btw, if you use a cationic polymer as deposition aid, you better use a non ionic silicone (like dimethicone) instead of amodimethicone.
    I am using this Amodimethicone 100k cst + CTAC+ Trideceth-12 macro emulsion in shampoo and conditioner. Which silicone emulsion do you recommend that is better overall conditioning compared to this one?

    As i import it in 180kg drum from another country, i can afford to purchase only one silicone for shampoo and conditioner at a time. 
  • ketchitoketchito Member
    @Abdullah I'd choose our good all friend dimethicone, at least for shampoos. Cationic silicones (like amodimethicones) are used more often in emulsions.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    ketchito said:
    @Abdullah I'd choose our good all friend dimethicone, at least for shampoos. Cationic silicones (like amodimethicones) are used more often in emulsions.
    Thanks
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