• Mouthwash

    Posted by marek.barnas on January 20, 2017 at 9:08 pm

    Hi all
    We are making mouthwash with using standard ingredients, as Aloe Vera Gel, Sodium Fluoride, Sodium Saccharine, Sodium Benzoate, Cetylpyridinium Chloride, Allantoin, Colour, Flavour, Polysorbate20. Product is clear when made. After a couple of months we get fall out with white flaky powder in the product. once shaken this goes back in and stays suspended for a few weeks. Any ideas why we get fall out? 

    Gonzalez replied 7 years, 1 month ago 8 Members · 19 Replies
  • 19 Replies
  • belassi

    Member
    January 20, 2017 at 10:44 pm

    You can either isolate and analyse the precipitate using the usual methods, or perform knock-out tests on the likely culprits.

  • marek.barnas

    Member
    January 20, 2017 at 11:04 pm

    @Belassi Can I have more info please?

  • belassi

    Member
    January 21, 2017 at 5:58 am

    Well it really depends on your lab equipment and expertise. The simplest way is knock out tests, this is not really an area with which I have any expertise. Is sodium fluoride very soluble or not? Cetylpyridinium Chloride? I don’t use such as these. Sorry I can’t be more helpful, I’m sure there are people here who can offer better advice.

  • johnb

    Member
    January 21, 2017 at 7:50 am

    What is the allantoin level?
    What is the purpose of the aloe vera?

  • doreen

    Member
    January 21, 2017 at 8:46 am

    This is so recognizable that I have to mention it: I have the same problem with adding allantoïn (0,5-0,7%) to a (clear) aloë vera toner. In my case it happens already after a month or so, shake it, clear again. 

  • david

    Member
    January 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm

    Allantoin solubility (seems to fit @AnnaLavar s problem)

    Solvents

    T (°C)

    %

    Water

    25°C

    0.5

    Water

    40°C

    1

    Water

    70°C

    3.5

  • doreen

    Member
    January 22, 2017 at 11:56 am

    @David, thanks! 

  • marek.barnas

    Member
    January 23, 2017 at 8:06 pm

    @johnb we use allantoin @ 0.01%. |It protects the oral mucosa and acts as an anti-irritant. It also promotes the healing of lesions.

    @Belassi Cetylpyridinium chloride is an antiseptic which kills bacteria and maintains your oral hygiene. Is widely used in mouthwash because it is very effective in preventing dental plaque and it is also very helpful to reduce gingivitis. 

  • marek.barnas

    Member
    January 23, 2017 at 8:11 pm

    is it true that Sodium benzoate requires acidic conditions?
    pH of the product we make is between 6.0-7.0 

  • bill_toge

    Member
    January 23, 2017 at 8:18 pm

    @marek.barnas it is true; sodium benzoate is completely ineffective above pH 5

  • marek.barnas

    Member
    January 23, 2017 at 8:55 pm

    @Bill_Toge what other preservative can be used in mouthwash please? 

  • bill_toge

    Member
    January 23, 2017 at 9:52 pm

    the main ones apart from sodium benzoate are sodium methyl paraben, and propylene / butylene glycol

    bronopol used to be used a lot, but not so much these days as it causes the product to go yellow over time

  • marek.barnas

    Member
    January 23, 2017 at 10:49 pm

    @Bill_Toge I thought that Butylene Glycol is a solubilizer

  • marek.barnas

    Member
    January 23, 2017 at 11:12 pm

    Can sodium benzoate create a soapy taste? or is it something to do with Polysorbate 20?

  • johnb

    Member
    January 26, 2017 at 8:55 am

    Most likely the polysorbate that is giving the soapy taste. Sodium benzoate is just slightly bitter and at normally used concentrations in soft drinks/mouthwash and so on it is non-detectable.

  • bill_toge

    Member
    January 26, 2017 at 11:01 am

    @marek.barnas 1,2-diols (of which propylene and butylene glycol are examples) have antimicrobial effects; the activity increases as the chain length increases

    unfortunately, as the chain length increases, solubility decreases and the taste becomes much more unpleasant

    they can act as solubilisers as well - the effects are not mutually exclusive

  • hasanarsan

    Member
    February 9, 2017 at 1:05 pm

    Allantoin can cause such problems because of its solubility. Try to add Glycerine or Propylene glycol to solubilize Allantoin. Also check your water quality. any kind of hardness can cause such problems. Glycerine also gives a sweet taste also. Disolve allontoin in solvents first.
    Regards

  • johnb

    Member
    February 9, 2017 at 2:01 pm

    hasanarsan

    This query was left in the charge of the originator to reply. There is little for anyone to do until that happens.

  • Gonzalez

    Member
    February 9, 2017 at 2:53 pm

    I agree with hasanarsan, the problem could be alantoin, because its solubilty is very low in water.  My advice is do the formulating with out the alantoin and put in the fridge  (4°C) in 48 hour you can have results.  

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