Face toner

Karo_lina

Hi,
I'm making face toner . Does this formula make sens?

water  - up to 100%
hydrosol - 20%
glycerin- 1%
preservative - 1%
marketing ingredients - 0,1%
pH - 4,5 archived by citric acid

Camel

Yes, but it really depends what you are trying to achieve in this toner. With this formula, you are basically just spraying water on your face, which there is nothing inherently wrong with doing. 

Karo_lina

Camel said:

Yes, but it really depends what you are trying to achieve in this toner. With this formula, you are basically just spraying water on your face, which there is nothing inherently wrong with doing. 

does increasing the amount of glycerin make sense? 

Camel

Karo_lina said:

does increasing the amount of glycerin make sense? 

Yes, you could increase the amount of glycerin if you'd like, although some people find higher levels of glycerin to feel sticky. Try 5% and see if you like how it feels. I have made products with up to 20% glycerin that didn't feel sticky, but it really depends on the formula, I suppose.

Is this a product you are selling? You could also consider adding niacinamide at 4-5%. It is a really popular ingredient in toners used by many big brands. Might help with the marketing and it does have some supporting studies for its use, plus dermatologists seem to love it. 

Karo_lina

Camel said:

Karo_lina said:

does increasing the amount of glycerin make sense? 

Yes, you could increase the amount of glycerin if you'd like, although some people find higher levels of glycerin to feel sticky. Try 5% and see if you like how it feels. I have made products with up to 20% glycerin that didn't feel sticky, but it really depends on the formula, I suppose.

Is this a product you are selling? You could also consider adding niacinamide at 4-5%. It is a really popular ingredient in toners used by many big brands. Might help with the marketing and it does have some supporting studies for its use, plus dermatologists seem to love it. 

Thank you for your reply . Yes, I will be selling this. I will try 5% glycerin. I was actually thinking about niacynamid but for marketing reasons. if niacinamide actually works then I will think about increasing the price of the product and adding it

Abdullah

What preservative are you using?

I would say add a chelating agent too, use only water soluble marketing ingredients, and use 1% or so lactic acid instead of glycerin and citric acid. It will decrease the pH and is better humectant than glycerin and has better skin feel too. 

You can feel even 1% of glycogen from a product if it is just glycerin and water. 

Also if you are not sure what your hydrosol is doing, reduce that to 0.1% and save yourself some money. 

Karo_lina

Abdullah said:

What preservative are you using?

I would say add a chelating agent too, use only water soluble marketing ingredients, and use 1% or so lactic acid instead of glycerin and citric acid. It will decrease the pH and is better humectant than glycerin and has better skin feel too. 

You can feel even 1% of glycogen from a product if it is just glycerin and water. 

Also if you are not sure what your hydrosol is doing, reduce that to 0.1% and save yourself some money. 

Is it safe to use lactic acid while spraying it on your face? As for the hydrosol , 20% is the minimum amount that will give the face toner nice fragrance

Camel

Karo_lina said:

Is it safe to use lactic acid while spraying it on your face? As for the hydrosol , 20% is the minimum amount that will give the face toner nice fragrance

Lactic acid is ideal for sensitive skin, as it is one of the more mild, gentle exfoliants. It can even be used during pregnancy and postpartum. You can find it in many commercial face toners, however, always be careful applying any product around the eyes. 

Karo_lina

Camel said:

Karo_lina said:

Is it safe to use lactic acid while spraying it on your face? As for the hydrosol , 20% is the minimum amount that will give the face toner nice fragrance

Lactic acid is ideal for sensitive skin, as it is one of the more mild, gentle exfoliants. It can even be used during pregnancy and postpartum. You can find it in many commercial face toners, however, always be careful applying any product around the eyes. 

Thank you very much for your reply  

Abdullah

Karo_lina said:

Abdullah said:

What preservative are you using?

I would say add a chelating agent too, use only water soluble marketing ingredients, and use 1% or so lactic acid instead of glycerin and citric acid. It will decrease the pH and is better humectant than glycerin and has better skin feel too. 

You can feel even 1% of glycogen from a product if it is just glycerin and water. 

Also if you are not sure what your hydrosol is doing, reduce that to 0.1% and save yourself some money. 

Is it safe to use lactic acid while spraying it on your face? As for the hydrosol , 20% is the minimum amount that will give the face toner nice fragrance

Yes it is safe

Paprik

Ok guys, let's get this straight as I see some misinformation. 

If you are using an ingredient as a buffer, doesn't matter if it's Lactic acid, Sodium hydroxide and similar, the ingredient actually dissociate into its ions. For example, for sodium hydroxide it's sodium ion (Na+) and hydroxyl ion (OH-). Therefore you do not get any "benefits/risks" from it. So if you are lowering pH with lactic acid, you will not have enough free ("full") acid to work as an active ingredient. However it does look better in the label. 

Your original formula is basically slightly hydrating good smelling water. 
Not sure what is your marketing story, but I don't think you will fulfill it and customer won't be happy with the product as it won't do anything. 

Glycerin can and will feel tacky, even at 5% especially if it's the "only" ingredient in your product. Water will evaporate and leave only the glycerin. 
(it is a different story for emulsions)

My suggestion - 
Keep the water, hydrosol if happy and in budget allows, keep the glycerin at 1% and add some other non-tacky humectant (propanediol, propylene glycol, etc...), get some hero ingredient - can be Niacinamide as mentioned and if needed other ingredients for marketing at 0.01%.
Of course well preserve and as Abdullah mentioned, chelator would not harm it. 

Hope this helps, happy formulating. 

Karo_lina

Paprik said:

Ok guys, let's get this straight as I see some misinformation. 

If you are using an ingredient as a buffer, doesn't matter if it's Lactic acid, Sodium hydroxide and similar, the ingredient actually dissociate into its ions. For example, for sodium hydroxide it's sodium ion (Na+) and hydroxyl ion (OH-). Therefore you do not get any "benefits/risks" from it. So if you are lowering pH with lactic acid, you will not have enough free ("full") acid to work as an active ingredient. However it does look better in the label. 

Your original formula is basically slightly hydrating good smelling water. 
Not sure what is your marketing story, but I don't think you will fulfill it and customer won't be happy with the product as it won't do anything. 

Glycerin can and will feel tacky, even at 5% especially if it's the "only" ingredient in your product. Water will evaporate and leave only the glycerin. 
(it is a different story for emulsions)

My suggestion - 
Keep the water, hydrosol if happy and in budget allows, keep the glycerin at 1% and add some other non-tacky humectant (propanediol, propylene glycol, etc...), get some hero ingredient - can be Niacinamide as mentioned and if needed other ingredients for marketing at 0.01%.
Of course well preserve and as Abdullah mentioned, chelator would not harm it. 

Hope this helps, happy formulating. 

First of all thank you for your reply. Just 2 more questions : what will work besides  niacinamide as the "hero ingredient"? What about non-tacky humectant ? will 2% of Propylene Glycol be enough?

Camel

Karo_lina said:

First of all thank you for your reply. Just 2 more questions : what will work besides  niacinamide as the "hero ingredient"? What about non-tacky humectant ? will 2% of Propylene Glycol be enough?

Is there a reason you don't want to use niacinamide (just curious)? It is a generally well-received ingredient and relatively inexpensive. 

You can take a look at commercial toners and see what their hero ingredients are and do something similar.

CeraVe's toner uses ceramides, hyaluronic acid and niacinamide. 

Paula's Choice toner uses niacinamide, hyaluronic acid and chamomile.

Ole Henriksen's toner uses glycolic acid, lactic acid, witch hazel and licorice root. 

Karo_lina

Camel said:

Karo_lina said:

First of all thank you for your reply. Just 2 more questions : what will work besides  niacinamide as the "hero ingredient"? What about non-tacky humectant ? will 2% of Propylene Glycol be enough?

Is there a reason you don't want to use niacinamide (just curious)? It is a generally well-received ingredient and relatively inexpensive. 

You can take a look at commercial toners and see what their hero ingredients are and do something similar.

CeraVe's toner uses ceramides, hyaluronic acid and niacinamide. 

Paula's Choice toner uses niacinamide, hyaluronic acid and chamomile.

Ole Henriksen's toner uses glycolic acid, lactic acid, witch hazel and licorice root. 

I will use niacinamide  , but I'm creating 4 toners and I want them to be diffrent. 

Paprik

It really depends what you want the toner to do. 
If it's for hydration, you could use hyaluronic acid. If it's for brightening, use the mentioned Niacinamide. If it's for exfoliation, you could use some AHA ... It really depends. 

Typical usage of humectants is 1 - 10%. But again, it depends.  

WarrenChemist

@Karo_lina ; Not sure what ingredients you have at your disposal but I find it always helps to think of a story first and then try to find actives that match this - even just for label claim.
Wake up toner? Caffeine and citrus extracts!
Sleepy time toner? Melatonin and lavender!
Customers love a good story and sometimes (more than... 90% of the time!) a good story will distract them from a product that isn't actually doing anything