Shampoo bar formula

Hi, I have very little experience but I've done a lot of research and have tried to come up with a sensible recipe. I would like for experienced solid shampoo formulators to please take the time to look at it and tell me if there is something really wrong with it or something that I could rework. Thank you so much for taking the time to read, here it is : 

(Total is 100)
sci 43
slsa 19
coco glucoside 3
"base douceur"* 22
btms 3 
marshmallow 6
inulin 2
fo 1.5
mica 0.5

* "base douceur" :
- water
- Sodium cocoamphoacetate : 10 à 20%
- Glycerin : 5 à 15%
- Lauryl glucoside : 5 à 15%
- Sodium cocoyl glutamate < 5%
- Sodium lauryl glucose carboxylate < 5%

Comments

  • SylSyl Member
    Overall your formula appears fine. There are many different formulations out there. You need to start testing to adjust the texture of the bar. La bonne nouvelle est que si votre bar is too soft you can always melt it and add more dry ingredients like SCI to increase rigidity.  ;)
  • Great! Merci for answering ;)
  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    It is probably a little bit on the lower side in terms of solid surfactants so it may be on the softer side.
    As @Syl mentioned you can increase the SCI by 5 or 10% if it is not hard enough.  Decrease your "base douceur" if you increase the SCI.
  • I'll trust you and start at 5% more sci and see from there. Thank you
  • You don't need BTMS even if you're looking for conditioning or to make your bar more solid. I would recommend between 50-80 percent solids surfanctant. But you need more than one powder shampoo agent because each surfactant has a maximum safe level. 
  • AlycmAlycm Member
    I have 67% solid surfactant so I'm in your range, aren't I?
    Can you explain why I don't need BTMS?
    And what do you mean by "But you need more than one powder shampoo agent because each surfactant has a maximum safe level."???
    I'm a bit lost readingyour message I must say.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    That btms would interest with some of your anionic surfactant abd both will become unavailable. So btms not only don't do any benefit, it also reduces the cleaning power. Only the fatty alcohol part may do some re fatting to hair that you can use it alone if you want. Much better and cheaper.

    I would say reduce the fo to ≤0.3%
  • You don't need to be lost in the formulation advice. Its much better to have a cake type shampoo bar where you mold it like play dough than a formula where you are using BTMS for conditioning and hardening. BTMS doesn't do anything for a shampoo for any type of hair. Its a useless ingredient in shampoo, even in conditioning shampoo. There are humectants and hydrating ingredients you can use instead. Also, when using gentle surfactants, it will clean hair without stripping it. But I'm not sure what end product you are aiming for. The best thing to do is to use a min of 2 powder surfactants but ideal to use at least one more type solid or liquid which is looks like you are. Make a product that uses the maximum of each at its safest level and put it in a silicone mold. If it sticks to your hand you need less liquid. If it cracks you have too much powder.

    When doing the first experiement you can make a 10 gram bar and use it to wash hands or face. My bar is so gentle it can be used on skin. This is easier than taking a shower with each batch since you already have experience in formulating it and trying it. This first batch can be very simple, just your surfactants and 1-2 actives and 1-2 humectants and or colorant etc. You can work on making it pretty later.

    You can also make a wet formula so you don't have to mold like play dough and sort of pour it instead. Its prettier too if you find a nice mold. You might need sodium lactate to help harden the bar and it'll also serve as one humectant. And then you will need to cure the bar for 2-3 days. I don't know if the recipe translated but it looks like you have up to 15% glycerine? I would recommend vegetable glycerine at well under 10%, although in shampoo at even 20% in a liquid shampoo is pure luxury. You can't necessarily have too much since its water soluable and leaves a silky finish on hair.

    What do you want your shampoo bar to look and feel like and for what type of hair?
    What access do you have to ingredients because i can send you a formula that works.
    Also are you looking for "natural"?
    Will it be for men or women?
    For dry or normal hair?
    What scent are you trying to achieve?
    Is the water being used for the marshmallow? Otherwise you may be able to replace the water and have your liquid surfactant and or actives serve as the liquid component.

    What are you using the marshmallow for? Because of the marshmallow and BTMS I presume you are looking for something conditioning or softening. I also used to use marshmallow for my shampoo bar, its a great ingredient for everything. The downfall is the water needed for the marshmallow. You could potentially blend a marshmallow powder into the liquid surfactant. It'll look like an herby bar with the marshmallow powder.


  • JohnSJohnS Member
    You don't need to be lost in the formulation advice. Its much better to have a cake type shampoo bar where you mold it like play dough than a formula where you are using BTMS for conditioning and hardening. BTMS doesn't do anything for a shampoo for any type of hair. Its a useless ingredient in shampoo, even in conditioning shampoo. There are humectants and hydrating ingredients you can use instead. Also, when using gentle surfactants, it will clean hair without stripping it. But I'm not sure what end product you are aiming for. The best thing to do is to use a min of 2 powder surfactants but ideal to use at least one more type solid or liquid which is looks like you are. Make a product that uses the maximum of each at its safest level and put it in a silicone mold. If it sticks to your hand you need less liquid. If it cracks you have too much powder.

    When doing the first experiement you can make a 10 gram bar and use it to wash hands or face. My bar is so gentle it can be used on skin. This is easier than taking a shower with each batch since you already have experience in formulating it and trying it. This first batch can be very simple, just your surfactants and 1-2 actives and 1-2 humectants and or colorant etc. You can work on making it pretty later.

    You can also make a wet formula so you don't have to mold like play dough and sort of pour it instead. Its prettier too if you find a nice mold. You might need sodium lactate to help harden the bar and it'll also serve as one humectant. And then you will need to cure the bar for 2-3 days. I don't know if the recipe translated but it looks like you have up to 15% glycerine? I would recommend vegetable glycerine at well under 10%, although in shampoo at even 20% in a liquid shampoo is pure luxury. You can't necessarily have too much since its water soluable and leaves a silky finish on hair.

    What do you want your shampoo bar to look and feel like and for what type of hair?
    What access do you have to ingredients because i can send you a formula that works.
    Also are you looking for "natural"?
    Will it be for men or women?
    For dry or normal hair?
    What scent are you trying to achieve?
    Is the water being used for the marshmallow? Otherwise you may be able to replace the water and have your liquid surfactant and or actives serve as the liquid component.

    What are you using the marshmallow for? Because of the marshmallow and BTMS I presume you are looking for something conditioning or softening. I also used to use marshmallow for my shampoo bar, its a great ingredient for everything. The downfall is the water needed for the marshmallow. You could potentially blend a marshmallow powder into the liquid surfactant. It'll look like an herby bar with the marshmallow powder.



    Hello @ProfessorHerb

    If you could, I would very much appreciate further details on BTMS being useless in shampoo products.

    Is it unable to perform its function of being substantive to hair due to the chemical nature of the other ingredients?
  • It will function almost like this. 

    Suppose you have 10% anionic surfactant and 2% BTMS in shampoo. 2% anionic surfactant will interact with 2% BTMS and both will not function anymore. only 8% remaining anionic surfactant will clean the hair and there is not cationic BTMS available to condition the hair.

    But if you use them separately, 10% anionic surfactant will clean the hair better than 8% as above and 2% BTMS will condition the hair back. 
  • As a general rule anionic and cationic surfactants shouldn't go together in the same product, but certain type of catonic surfactants at specific ratios can actually be mixed with anionic surfactants, creating clear gel structures (soft complexes) rather than precipitates, showing synergistic behaviors. This read is actually very nice: http://www.scientificspectator.com/documents/Olenick Compilation/Ch 15 Cationic Anionic 1.pdf
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