Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Does BTMS-50 need a co-emulsifier?

  • Does BTMS-50 need a co-emulsifier?

    Posted by GeorgeBenson on December 27, 2021 at 7:48 am

    I have a rinse-off conditioner formula I LOVE that is stable at 40 degrees up until about 7 weeks, at which point some separation is starting to occur. Nothing drastic yet, but there seems to be almost an inch of a yellowish layer forming on top. RT sample still looking great. 

    I used BTMS-50 at 10%, wondering if maybe it needed some other co-emulsifier? Cetyl alchol, cetearyl alcohol, e-wax, montanov 202, or…? Perhaps a little xanthan gum to hold it all together? I once had a lotion formula that was giving me similar problems and adding 0.25% xanthan completely took care of it.

    I feel like this formula was almoooooosst perfect and just needs some slight tweak to make it stable. 

    Any thoughts?

    Other ingredients, in no particular order:

    Honey
    Witch Hazel hydrosol
    Aloe juice
    Aqueous extracts of various herbs
    Propanediol
    Sodium Phytate
    Kukui
    GuarCat
    Glycerin
    Polyquaternium-7
    Hemp Protein
    Allantoin
    Panthenol
    Ginseng Extract (caprylic triglyceride based)
    Vitamin E
    Fragrance oil
    Euxyl 9010
    Citric Acid

    abdullah replied 2 years, 3 months ago 5 Members · 11 Replies
  • 11 Replies
  • GeorgeBenson

    Member
    December 27, 2021 at 8:08 am

    That’s kukui OIL, fwiw 

  • ketchito

    Member
    December 27, 2021 at 1:29 pm

    @GeorgeBenson I’d try a sample without GuarCat and Polyquaternium-7. Also, if you have that much Behentrimonium, you wouldn’t need to use cationic polymers. If you want to increase stability of your formula as it is, I’d advise you to add a non ionic emulsifier with a very hydrophilic polar head (like Ceteareth-20).

  • abdullah

    Member
    December 27, 2021 at 2:39 pm

    Remove citric acid and sodium phytate too. 

    Also use less than 5% BTMS 50 and add some fatty alcohol to stabilize it.

  • ggpetrov

    Member
    December 27, 2021 at 5:54 pm

    Isn’t the Allantoin anionic? Maybe I am wrong but you can’t use it in combination with strong cationic compounds.

  • abdullah

    Member
    December 28, 2021 at 3:47 am

    ggpetrov said:

    Isn’t the Allantoin anionic? Maybe I am wrong but you can’t use it in combination with strong cationic compounds.

    No it is not anionic. But sodium phytate and citric acid is. 

  • GeorgeBenson

    Member
    December 28, 2021 at 5:28 am

    Thank you for the suggestions, I will try a few new batches with these changes and hope for the best.

    are the miniscule amounts of sodium phytate and citric acid that I use really enough to destabilize the formula? 

  • abdullah

    Member
    December 28, 2021 at 7:19 am

    0.1% sodium phytate will and citric acid maybe.

  • GeorgeBenson

    Member
    December 28, 2021 at 7:31 am

    Is there a better way to lower the pH without citric acid?

  • Cafe33

    Member
    December 28, 2021 at 7:32 am

    Lactic acid is usually what I have seen used with BTMS

  • ggpetrov

    Member
    December 28, 2021 at 11:36 am

    Abdullah said:

    ggpetrov said:

    Isn’t the Allantoin anionic? Maybe I am wrong but you can’t use it in combination with strong cationic compounds.

    No it is not anionic.

    Really?

  • abdullah

    Member
    December 28, 2021 at 11:46 am

    Yes lactic acid is much better

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