Does BTMS-50 need a co-emulsifier?

GeorgeBensonGeorgeBenson Member
edited December 2021 in Formulating
I have a rinse-off conditioner formula I LOVE that is stable at 40 degrees up until about 7 weeks, at which point some separation is starting to occur. Nothing drastic yet, but there seems to be almost an inch of a yellowish layer forming on top. RT sample still looking great. 

I used BTMS-50 at 10%, wondering if maybe it needed some other co-emulsifier? Cetyl alchol, cetearyl alcohol, e-wax, montanov 202, or...? Perhaps a little xanthan gum to hold it all together? I once had a lotion formula that was giving me similar problems and adding 0.25% xanthan completely took care of it.

I feel like this formula was almoooooosst perfect and just needs some slight tweak to make it stable. 

Any thoughts?

Other ingredients, in no particular order:

Honey
Witch Hazel hydrosol
Aloe juice
Aqueous extracts of various herbs
Propanediol
Sodium Phytate
Kukui
GuarCat
Glycerin
Polyquaternium-7
Hemp Protein
Allantoin
Panthenol
Ginseng Extract (caprylic triglyceride based)
Vitamin E
Fragrance oil
Euxyl 9010
Citric Acid

Comments

  • That’s kukui OIL, fwiw 
  • @GeorgeBenson I'd try a sample without GuarCat and Polyquaternium-7. Also, if you have that much Behentrimonium, you wouldn't need to use cationic polymers. If you want to increase stability of your formula as it is, I'd advise you to add a non ionic emulsifier with a very hydrophilic polar head (like Ceteareth-20).
  • Remove citric acid and sodium phytate too. 

    Also use less than 5% BTMS 50 and add some fatty alcohol to stabilize it.
  • Isn't the Allantoin anionic? Maybe I am wrong but you can't use it in combination with strong cationic compounds.

  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    edited December 2021
    ggpetrov said:
    Isn't the Allantoin anionic? Maybe I am wrong but you can't use it in combination with strong cationic compounds.

    No it is not anionic. But sodium phytate and citric acid is. 
  • Thank you for the suggestions, I will try a few new batches with these changes and hope for the best.

    are the miniscule amounts of sodium phytate and citric acid that I use really enough to destabilize the formula? 
  • 0.1% sodium phytate will and citric acid maybe.
  • Is there a better way to lower the pH without citric acid?
  • Lactic acid is usually what I have seen used with BTMS
  • Abdullah said:
    ggpetrov said:
    Isn't the Allantoin anionic? Maybe I am wrong but you can't use it in combination with strong cationic compounds.

    No it is not anionic.
    Really?
  • Yes lactic acid is much better
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